45 / 70 Anyone ?

[Ben]

I bought my 1st 45/70 about 4 years ago. A Knight KP1.

I did a lot of reading about it prior to investing any money in it. Seems that the rifle has a clean bill of health on the internet with the many reviews that I was able to read. I also own several Ruger # 1 rifles and know that the fore end can cause problems. The fore end on this rifle is totally isolated from the receiver of the rifle. I really liked that feature. The rifle also has a clean crisp trigger. The barrel has a 1 - 18 twist.

This rifle was chambered and sold in 300 Win. Mag.
So, the 45/70 with sane and reasonable loads shouldn't strain things at all on this rifle.

Any advice you'd like to offer about loads that you like to use in your 45/70 would be appreciated ?

I put my Burris 1.5 X 6 Variable on the rifle. Just about ideal in my opinion :

I got out today and cast about 100 of these.
It is the IDEAL 457483

I'm getting a nice, round .460" with ACWW's.

Anyone with this bullet that would like to step in and share your thoughts on the performance of this bullet in your rifle (s), I'd really like to hear your comments.

 

[Brad]

Try those with somewhere in the 24 gr of 2400 range and they will be good to go. Should get 1350 fps or maybe a bit more and shoot accurately too. Recoil will be bearable.

 

[45 2.1]

Interesting rifle..... considering there are three different divisions in rifle strength for this cartridge (and it seems the barrel sets in a lug carriage and is screwed to it), I would ask the manufacturer if it is rated for buffalo bore ammo or factory before I got wild with it. Anywhere from 300 to 420 grain bullets are fun with this caliber. SR4759 is about the best low and medium level powder. The manuals have some nice loads for them also, but anywhere from 20 to 24 grains will work nicely with your bullet. 2400 will also work well if you get the right load for it. MP molds just finished a 420 gr. hollow base/ plain base mold which shoots very well.

 

[smokeywolf]

I put it on top of IMR 3031 in my Winchester model '86 SRC. 4895 is also a good candidate for this bullet.

Have also put it (without gas check) on top of 10 grains of Unique in a trapdoor.

 

[Brad]

I suppose we should ask, are you looking for a fun to shoot load or something to rattle the fillings?
Yes, I did imply that healthy loads are not fun to me. I shoot a 420 gr cast at 1650 fps when needed but most of my shooting is that same bullet at 1350. The extra 300 fps does make a significant difference, on both ends.

 

[Ben]

I need a load that will shoot fairly flat and accurately out to 100 yards.
I have a good bit of 2400. Think I'll start at 22.0 grs. and go from there.

Ben

 

[Brad]

Sounds like a good plan to me. You might see if Dacron makes a difference. It makes a small difference for mine but I don't use it. The benefit isn't worth the extra steps to use it.

 

[Ian]

Take your heaviest .45 Colt bullet, size to about .452" or just so it gets just lightly engraved by the lands when pushed into the muzzle with your thumb, wet-patch with two wraps of lined notebook paper, fold the base, lube patch with BLL after drying, press into a flared, unsized case over a Trapdoor starting load of RX-7 + grits or COW for slight compression, make it so the patch snuggles up to the lands when chambered. Adjust powder/filler ratio until you get one-hole groups at 100 yards. Use 2400 for bullets lighter than 280 grains.

 

[Ben]

Some very interesting ideas.

Ben

 

[Josh]

Take your heaviest .45 Colt bullet, size to about .452" or just so it gets just lightly engraved by the lands when pushed into the muzzle with your thumb, wet-patch with two wraps of lined notebook paper, fold the base, lube patch with BLL after drying, press into a flared, unsized case over a Trapdoor starting load of RX-7 + grits or COW for slight compression, make it so the patch snuggles up to the lands when chambered. Adjust powder/filler ratio until you get one-hole groups at 100 yards. Use 2400 for bullets lighter than 280 grains.

Would this work in a lever gun?

 

[Ben]

Take your heaviest .45 Colt bullet, size to about .452" or just so it gets just lightly engraved by the lands when pushed into the muzzle with your thumb, wet-patch with two wraps of lined notebook paper, fold the base, lube patch with BLL after drying, press into a flared, unsized case over a Trapdoor starting load of RX-7 + grits or COW for slight compression, make it so the patch snuggles up to the lands when chambered. Adjust powder/filler ratio until you get one-hole groups at 100 yards. Use 2400 for bullets lighter than 280 grains.

Not exactly what you're describing Ian , but I have an old IDEAL 454424 that cast right at .458".

This is the result of trials with the 454424 , 5 rounds from my 45/70 at 50 yards .
A very pleasant load to fire :

 

[fiver]

I'm in the 22.5gr area of 2400 for my 425 gr boolit with a gas check.
any more than that and I have to shoot it standing up. [my hunting load is 24.5grs and a tuft of Dacron]
the crescent steel butt plate on the 86 is not conducive to bench rest shooting.
not even a little bit.

 

[Mikey]

I beagle my RCBS 45-255 mould to drop a bullet that just gets skinned in the .458 die, and load that over 11 grains of Unique for my Marlin for a nice trigger-time load. At 85 yards it shoots to the scope's 100 yard POA, set for 325 gr. FTXs.
Since I've never done it, I hadn't considered PPing for this bullet instead, but that sounds like an outstanding idea. Thanks Ian!
The tall bullet in my avatar is the Lyman 457193, which is my only mould for .45-70; drops at .4595" and a hefty 415. The gun and I are at an impasse over cast loads other than the light pistol bullet; probably time to revisit that.

mike

 

[Ian]

Paper jackets are just another dimension to the fun-factor for me, you all may not agree, but dang it can make for some really tight-grouping, consistent loads that shoot fast and accurately at long range. Not that the patch is in any way necessary, it's just convenient to use with .452-4" pistol bullets in a 45/70 and can let you shoot plain-based bullets inexpensively and let them be cast from very soft scrap without any side-effects. The confetti shower always makes me grin, too, something about it.

Yes, the patches can work in a levergun, particularly if you patch from the crimp groove back and leave the front band exposed. No real advantage there to using the patch unless you're going for broke with velocity and wanting to use soft bullets. One thing I just never could bring myself to do is use a .45-caliber gas check on anything.

 

[Warren4570]

so far I have had good luck with both imr 4198 and 3031 ... but use cci34 primers dont have any load data with me here its at home but can post some if you like..
I have a 390gr gc FP that I have been shootin which seems close in weight to what your casting Ian

 

[KHornet]

I agree with Brad! I shoot a #1Ruger w/350, 385, and 420 gr projectiles over between 24 and 28 grains of 2400. I use Dacron fill as the old Lyman manuals used to recommend, and find it improves accuracy. I have molds for Gas Checks, but see no need for them in a 45-70 at loads under 1600 fps. I have 500 grain molds that are real shooters but also real punishers on the body. My favorite load is 26 gr. of 2400 under 420 Ohas flatnose, plain base, at an estimated 1450-1500, and that is enough for accuracy and acceptable recoil. Round ball loads are kind of fun as well, and have loaded one, two, and 3 balls successfully, and they are functional out to between 25-30 yds for multi ball loads. The little collar buttons are fun also to shoot. The 350 lee, and the 385 Lyman have proven to be very accurate to 100 with moderate loads of both 2400 and Unique. Have not had great success with Trail Boss, although a lot of shooters seem to do better with it than me. With proper loads, would not hesitate to use it on anything on this continent.