tumble lubing

Kevin Stenberg

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know. If you size a bullet that has been tumble lubed. Is the lube rubbed off in the sizing process? I have to resize some bullets only .0005 and was concerned that the BLL would be removed. Then again it only takes seconds to recoat and let dry again. Kevin
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I'm going to say no - it is not rubbed off.

At least not much, let alone all.

This stuff is tenacious, and unless it's literally scraped, it just gets smeared on harder and thinner. I've never had to clean a push-through sizing die either. My sizing dies have all been polished to some degree or another and the transition from the taper to the parallel internal dimension smoothed out a bit. so no scraping.

I use 45-45-10 and BLL sparingly that you can't see it on the bullet - you have to smell them to know if they've been lubed, but if it's not coming off in the die, and not accumulating on the trailing end of the bullets as they pass through the die, where does it GO? I don't thing it GOES anywhere. I TL bullets with "micro-bands" as well as big "grease-grooves" and see no indication of it being wiped off and deposited in the grooves and none left on the die, so...

Does not seem to get rubbed off. Still, I TL before AND after sizing. Don't know if I need to, but it works for ACWW/GC'd over 1800 fps, so I don't mess with the process.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
While I would recoat them, I highly doubt it's necessary, I mean there is some lube in the grooves that won't be touched by sizing, besides the residue left on the bands...cuz the sizing ain't gonna remove all the lube on the bands.
 
M

MW65

Wetside, Oregon
Like the others, it's probably a non issue.... but it can't hurt to give it a few extra drops of bll to make sure it's happy. I typically lube before and after sizing.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
when i use 45-45 lube i added in some bees wax to the original batch, then went to a bit of tre-wax so i could see it on the bullet.
anyway:
i coat, then size, then re-heat the bullets and splash them with some mineral spirits, and shake them again.
then let them dry.
just how i do it....[shrug]
 
Bazoo

Bazoo

Active Member
fiver said:
when i use 45-45 lube i added in some bees wax to the original batch, then went to a bit of tre-wax so i could see it on the bullet.
anyway:
i coat, then size, then re-heat the bullets and splash them with some mineral spirits, and shake them again.
then let them dry.
just how i do it....[shrug]
Click to expand...
I've never heard of that, splash of mineral spirits. I guess that gets the lube flowing again.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
fiver said:
when i use 45-45 lube i added in some bees wax to the original batch, then went to a bit of tre-wax so i could see it on the bullet.
anyway:
i coat, then size, then re-heat the bullets and splash them with some mineral spirits, and shake them again.
then let them dry.
just how i do it....[shrug]
Click to expand...

I didn't vary from the original 45-45-10 recipe besides maybe cooking it too long, but I like what I got from that deviation. Mine does not pour. It's more of a thick paste. Not quite grease, not quite wax. A little dab about half the size of a canned pea in a half-full ziplock freezer bag of very warm bullets and a minute or two of squishing and kneading melts and distributes it very evenly and very thinly.

Size those, re-warm them, repeat the above and they're ready to roll. They dry in less than half and hour, usually.

You cannot even see the lube, even after the second coat. I have to open the container and smell them to know if I've lubed them.

Others have mentioned (years ago) filling the grooves with TL. Some had convinced themselves that what they thought was getting wiped off during sizing got deposited into the grooves. Both ideas were considered positive because you ended up with more lube in the grooves. I did not know at the time, but saw accumulated lube in the grooves as a positive, or at least doing no harm. In the intervening years, I believe I've found that the lube IN the grooves is wasted, as it simply rides along and sails off with the bullet without being part of the bullet/bore interface.

Shooting the bullets with lube so thin I can't see it produces less smoke, does not lead and is as accurate as when I used to slather the things. Unless for other reasons I'm failing to recall (other changes), I'd actually say that the lightly-lubed bullets shoot BETTER than when I was slathering them.

Also, I cannot say for certain that my second coat (thin as it is) actually ADDS any more lube, but my intention is to even it all back out after sized. Do I HAVE to do that? I have no idea. I've never shot one coat extensively enough for any epiphanies to jump up and smack me on the head. Doing a second application after sizing (or even on unsized bullets) is so quick and easy that it's no real detractor.

I really think that any TL which gets wiped off is just gross excess being lube pushed off the top, and that you are leaving a thin, useful layer behind. Either this is so, or it DOES get wiped off and I really don't even need any lube to begin with.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
gotta remember that the 10% mineral spirits is the bare minimum that works.
i use about 40% by MK-1 eyeball volume.
[don't care if it foofs off somewhere before i use it again]

believe it or not the 45-45 lube sans alox was originally meant to be mixed with bees wax [which i still do only less] and swirled around in a cup to kind of fill the lube groove on a bullet i didn't want to size.
i was trying to mimic the hard wax coating that the 22LR uses.

then when JD got hold of me with his trouble trying to mix alox and JPW i went out and broke down the process without the B-wax so i had good directions for cooking the stuff with his ingredients.

funny thing is i still swirl lube those bullets only i'm not using that same exact mix and just use the [my version] 45-45 lube now.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
I think everyone has their own twist on 45-45-10.
Myself, I melted and cooked off solvents of the JPW until a certain point, I'd have to look at my notes for more precise percentage, but was probably half. Then add the Lee Alox, then cool somewhat, then add some MS so it's sort of liquid at that warmish temp. It turns to the viscosity of creamy peanut butter at room temp, I suspect my MS content is less than 10%. I keep in glass jar with tight metal lid, and use a screwdriver to apply a bullet size blob to a bowl of preheated bullets. Swirl. Due to heat, the lube dries to touch in about 15 minutes (the time it takes for bullets to cool off).
I use same bowl, over and over.
So, if I were to recoat as the OP asked, I'd just put them in the bowl, which is coated with dried 45-45-10, and heat, Swirl, then they look fresh.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
JonB said:
I think everyone has their own twist on 45-45-10.
...
Click to expand...

True, though your method sounds as close to what I do as I've heard.


Re-using the same container (I use a freezer-bag, you use a bowl) with warm bullets, livens up the residue in the container just the same. Very, VERY little goes to waste. I'm just now finishing up what I made in 2012 and have been through several hundred pounds of alloy.
 
JBinMN

JBinMN

Member
45-45-10 is one of my most used lubes other than straight up pan lubing.

About pea sized, or pencil eraser sized amount of the 45/45/10.

I heat the bullets slightly, using a heat gun, blowing hot air on them & swirling them a bit to keep them from jostling together to much or too hard.
I do it basically just hot enough to not hold in ones hand in the first used JPW tin I started with years ago since I saved it, and still using the lid I saved as well.

100 - 150 bullets 230 gr. or less usually, sometimes a bit more bullets if they are down to 90- 115gr., heated up a bit, then adding the pea size "glob" of lube, swirl in the can for a minute or so, then roll out in a 9x9, or maybe it is 12x12 old baking pan with some wax paper as a liner.

Wait about 15 minutes or so till they are cooled down to handle easily & size them with the light coat of lube. ( I use Lee push thru sizer dies.)

When done sizing , I repeat the process, but use about half the amount of 45/45/10 and repeat with the "heat & swirl" in the tin.

Put into the wax paper lined pan again 2nd coat & let cool, then load them.
All of them have been just fine with using this process and shot in all sorts of calibers without any hassles.
Occasionally I might have to do a little cleaning of a seating stem, if I find there is a little smidge of "buildup", (just like occasionally happens with pan lubing), and some excess builds up, but not too often.

I know if it is time to clean the seating stems as I check a few (about 3- 5) rounds or so for COAL, about every 25 rounds in a batch/run, to see if there is any possible buildup of lube on the seating stem end that is pushing the bullet deeper than I will tolerate for COAL. If no under COAL, I proceed... If undersized, I go back a bit, find where there is a change, correct & start again. ( I use a somewhat slower procedure than most & I do not use a "progressive". I am too anal about what I am doing. Others are fine with going faster & more quantity. I am pretty "Particular", and am just fine with going at a comfortable rate of production without hurrying. I am not in a horse race. Q. A. is important to me. You do as You like & I do as I like. ;) )


IMO, Like anything else one can do, be it stamp collecting, building collectable cars, re-blueing firearms or like this, casting, lubing & reloading bullets into cases to shoot;
One just has to have a bit of "attention to detail" & knowing ones limitations about just how one wants to make something for themselves.

YMMV, of course. What is done to cast & handload is an "Art", but at the same time, not like painting a picture "Art", but being safe & attentive, with a good dose of common sense, is likely a good idea.
;)


Edit: Cuz I can't see good up close & need a new eyeglass prescription, I type badly & make mistakes, & why are you reading this anyway... ;)
 
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J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Speaking of "heating" or "warming" the bullets...

I "tumble" (squish) in a ziplock bag. If you get them TOO warm, you've got a problem. I noticed once that they felt a bit too warm as I squished and before I could stop, I had bullets running between my fingers onto t he floor. Picking the melted plastic off the bullets was not fun either.
 
M

MW65

Wetside, Oregon
I don't heat them up... but dilute the "elk snot" with turpentine until it flows easily... a few drops and I know it's well coated. Might need to experiment with a hot plate and aluminum tray.
 
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