cultivated meat

Bret4207 said:

It strikes me as extremely odd that in era where the big thing is "fresh", "natural", "hormone free", "pasture raised", etc. that anyone would want something entirely unnatural, fresh, hormone free, etc. The plant based Whopper is a fine example- you take plant based material and add who knows what additives to it to make it taste and feel like some sort of actual meat product when you bite into it. It makes no sense to me that people can somehow claim it's "healthier". You don't know what it is, what's taken out of it or added to it. It may be lower in cholesterol or something, but how do you know? You trust Burger King to be 100% honest with you? Come on!!!

Meat comes from animals.

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The last thing I want to do, is step into an argument...toward either side.
But let me point out one of the most common additives in either meat hamburgers as well as plant based burgers.
Yeast extract, AKA: Autolyzed yeast.
Basically, it's yeast guts with outer shell removed.
There is a manufacturing plant (OHLY) in the next town over from me. The grow a wide number of yeast varieties for their multiple food additive products. The ones that taste like fried hamburger are nothing short of amazing...must be the umami ?

"Yeast extracts are naturally rich in glutamic acid, an amino acid known to elicit 'umami taste' which is, next to sweet, sour, salty and bitter, one of the five basic human taste sensations. Umami is described as 'delicious savoury taste' and really brings out the saltiness, sweetness and savoury flavours in food."

Savoury Flavours | Yeast Extract for Umami Taste | Ohly - OHLY

Ohly are specialist providers of yeast-based solutions for savoury flavours. These yeast extracts help to bring out savoury and umami tastes. Find out more.

www.ohly.com

Michael said:

Plant chickpeas in a row, 12" apart covered by 1/2" of fine dirt. Keep warm and moist. "Harvest" in 120 days.

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I had a dog that did that and she rolled in the freshly dug-up chicken (before she ate it) so we all could share in the pleasure! She did only plant one at a time though.

This discussion has made me hungry, I'm going to BK to get an Impossible Burger for lunch.

The further you get away from good, fresh, healthy food the more problems you run into. Yes, you can get cheap meat that is loaded with all sorts of nasties, slap it on some over processed, super soft white bread and eat it with some "cheese product" while drinking "Almond Milk". You will probably survive a good long while. But hopefully at some point you'd look around at the morbidly obese, the high rate of diabetes, cancer, autism, mental disease, heart disease, etc. and wonder if maybe ingesting what amounts to fake food over the years, loaded with additives, dyes, preservatives, etc., etc., along with all sorts of drugs and medicines is really mixing a cocktail of unforeseen issues. At one point there was data out there that showed autism rates were very high among the children of military personnel. Huh, wonder why? Dad got every vaccine there was, maybe multiple times. That's got to show up somewhere. I'm not sure that info is still out there, but being near Ft Drum here we get a lot of anecdotal info that says not much has changed.

To each their own, but the fact is that we don't know, that we don't know, what we don't know.

Thumbcocker said:

Maybe Colonists on Mars won't have to be vegan.

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The sticking point for me when it comes to space travel and colonization is best exemplified by soap. For the latter-half of the 20th century, soap usage in the US averaged (when you factor in all personal and environmental cleaning) about a pound per person per week.

It takes about a pound of oil (vegetable oil, whatever) to make a pound of soap. In a good year, an acre of oil crop might yield 1,700 pounds of oil (roughly 4 1/2 people-worth of soap). Even if the colonists somehow got average usage down to 2 ounces per week, that acre of oil crop is only enough for 36 people for a year--and the left-over de-oiled vegetable matter, processed into food, doesn't make a dent in the food requirements.

Eating meat, figure about 1/2 acre of cropland per person per year--and don't forget, you've got to come up with food for the meat animals or feedstock for the cultivated-meat vats (and that feedstock would have to be processed). For vegetarians, the same nutrition needs to come from about 2 acres. Hydroponics is often touted as the answer, but the hydroponic equivalent of even 10 acres requires a vast infrastructure. No matter how you look at it, there has to be intensive equipment and support, and personnel to operate and maintain that support. There is no margin for error/broken equipment/crop failure, and there is nothing to fall back on but shipments from "home".

I sometimes get the feeling that folks are expecting colonization of space to be a cross between Star Trek and The Jetsons. I can't help but think it will be more like a re-enactment of the winter of 1609 in Jamestown, taking place in a double-crewed Gato-class submarine.

KeithB said:

Local Chinese takeout place has General Tso's tofu, it's pretty good, especially when you don't have any teeth and can't chew beef, pork, or chicken. They make some other dishes with tofu that are pretty tasty.

Not going to get into the politics of the efficacy of the covid vaccine, just glad I've gotten three of them. I get my statistics on things such as that from reputable sources.

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Yes; ALL POLITICS ASIDE; that said, I get my information from Rags like Lancet which has STARTED, as Paul Harvey used to say, to tell THE REST OF THE STORY.
I can't help being skeptical; goes with a 45 year career in Anesthesia.

Well, I TRIED to get an Impossible Burger. fifth one in the drive-thru line and after 7 minutes the guy at the front of the line hadn't even had his order taken. Drove a couple miles away to a Rally's and got two orders of fried mushrooms with some Ranch dressing dipping sauce. Third in line there but I was thru and heading back down the road in less than five minutes. Knocked off most of the breading, they were pretty good.

Skeptical is a good thing. Gary, if you would want to send me a link to whatever article(s) you are referring to in the Lancet I would be very interested in reading it.

And now, powdered beer, transvestite fake meat, what's next?

I will stick with that critter that gets stuck with a broadhead from our #55 Bear Kodiak. Corn fed back strap is still very high on my personal menu.

Michael said:

Soylent Green

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That was my first thought.

JustJim said:

The sticking point for me when it comes to space travel and colonization is best exemplified by soap. For the latter-half of the 20th century, soap usage in the US averaged (when you factor in all personal and environmental cleaning) about a pound per person per week.

It takes about a pound of oil (vegetable oil, whatever) to make a pound of soap. In a good year, an acre of oil crop might yield 1,700 pounds of oil (roughly 4 1/2 people-worth of soap). Even if the colonists somehow got average usage down to 2 ounces per week, that acre of oil crop is only enough for 36 people for a year--and the left-over de-oiled vegetable matter, processed into food, doesn't make a dent in the food requirements.

Eating meat, figure about 1/2 acre of cropland per person per year--and don't forget, you've got to come up with food for the meat animals or feedstock for the cultivated-meat vats (and that feedstock would have to be processed). For vegetarians, the same nutrition needs to come from about 2 acres. Hydroponics is often touted as the answer, but the hydroponic equivalent of even 10 acres requires a vast infrastructure. No matter how you look at it, there has to be intensive equipment and support, and personnel to operate and maintain that support. There is no margin for error/broken equipment/crop failure, and there is nothing to fall back on but shipments from "home".

I sometimes get the feeling that folks are expecting colonization of space to be a cross between Star Trek and The Jetsons. I can't help but think it will be more like a re-enactment of the winter of 1609 in Jamestown, taking place in a double-crewed Gato-class submarine.

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one pound of soap per week per person?
It takes me about 6 months to use a pound of soap.
That's about 1/2 oz per week.
So, someone else has to make up the difference of my low usage

i just rub the stuff all over my body, i don't know what they do with the rest?

I take any such article like that with a grain of salt. Read one one time that said every person in the country eats 1 gallon of ice cream a month. I guess someone else is getting my share because I don't eat a gallon of ice cream in 2-3 years. Read one that stated how many acres of forest in S. America are being cut down every year. I thought that sounded like a lot, so I googled it. Turns out that every year forests are being cut down at a rate of 3x the area of the pacific ocean. I can't believe how much peanut butter I eat. Truth is if I ate it 3 times a day every day, I couldn't come close. If I ate the amount of candy they say I wouldn't fit thru a door. Almost all of those types of articles are written purely for the shock value. Most people never think it thru, just accept it.

a gallon?
that's a bowl almost every day.

Depends on the size of the bowl and spoon. And the kind of ice cream.

fiver said:

a gallon?
that's a bowl almost every day.

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Bet I could eat a gallon in a month, easy.

Love me some ice cream. Might be why we don’t buy it. A pint lasts a couple days. A quart, maybe a week.

I didn't say I couldn't, said I don't. For one thing it's horrible for diabetes, doesn't do much good for the waistline either.

KeithB said:

They grow insulin in a vat nowadays instead of extracting it from animals as was formerly the practice. Don't see why growing meat cells in a vat is much different. Probably using some of the same techniques that are used to grow human cells for medical purposes.

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Man Keith, you don't have a curmudgeonly bone in you body.

I've read several articles about using 3D printing techniques to try and print skin cells for burn victims and pancreas cells to deal with diabetes. I find it very interesting to see the result of cross-pollination of various technologies, especially when applied to medicine and human health issues.