CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I just cast up a few hundred Lyman 200g TC bullets.
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10mm
- Thread starter Mainiac
- Start date
Hawk
Well-Known Member
I've got an MP 160 gr. mold for to 10mm.
I've also got some old HS6 that I never thought of using.
May I ask where you got your load data?
I've got j word bullet loading manuals, but nothing with HS6 data.
I've gotten good speed and accuracy with Blue Dot, but the muzzle fireball is spectacular!
I've also got some old HS6 that I never thought of using.
May I ask where you got your load data?
I've got j word bullet loading manuals, but nothing with HS6 data.
I've gotten good speed and accuracy with Blue Dot, but the muzzle fireball is spectacular!
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I read through this thread just now, and it dawned on me--The only bullet weights I have ever used in 40 S&W are 175-180 grains, and in 10mm only 175-180 and 200 grains.
It appears that the 10mm Auto cartridge might be experiencing a rebirth of interest. SIG-Sauer has announced a variant in its P-320 design for the 10mm. I've loved the caliber for a long time, and have had at least one example in the safe for 30+ years.
The cartridge has an interesting history. The first noises about it occurred in roughly 1975, in Guns & Ammo magazine. Their writers' concoction used cut-off 224 Weatherby brass (IIRC--it was a belted case that was proprietary to Weatherby, maybe the 240? Not sure.) and used cast and jacketed bullets meant for the 38/40 WCF. Velocities imparted were in the 1100-1150 FPS neighborhood, and even a hard-boiled 45 ACP man like LTC Jeff Cooper said that the "40 G&A Magnum" had merit as a goblin stopper.
The idea didn't die out. In the early 1980's Dornaus & Dixon brought out their Bren Ten, a design based upon the CZ-75 system. It was a decent pistol, but for a variety of reasons the pistols were scarce, expensive, and magazines were (and are) VERY scarce. The cartridge itself was simpler than the G&A precursor, using a bit more common existing case (30 and 32 Remington, cut off) as its parent and either the 38/40 jacketed bullets or newer designs--like the Winchester Silvertip 175 grain JHP.
In the mid-1980s S&W went "all-in" with the 10mm, chambering their large-frame Third Generation 45 ACP series pistols (45XX models) in 10mm--the 10XX series. There were traditional double-action variants, DAO variants, decocking-lever variants, and at least 2 barrel length options (4-1/4" and 5"). FBI adopted the 10mm as an issue caliber, and that shop's 1986 Miami shootout experience figured highly in that move, I'm sure. I believe (2nd-hand info, from reliable folks) that FBI's Hostage Rescue Team have or had H&K MP-5 variants in 10mm among their toys and tools kit.
Life was good, right? Kind of, but the 10mm kicks more than the other 3 popular autopistol calibers. There are no plea bargains on the laws of physics. The FBI hires a wide range of people as agents, and the usual run of accountants and law school grads that get hired aren't often active in the arms sports. That recoil impulse from the Norma-level loads (200 grains @ 1200 FPS) or even the Silvertips (175 grains at 1225-1250 FPS) weren't manageable by a lot of recruits. Federal Cartridge Company cobbled up what has been called "The FBI Lite" loading, the usual 180 grain bullet run at 1030 FPS, that was a lot more manageable for the agents.
It didn't take long for another innovation to take hold--the 40 S&W. The shortened 10mm case was given a small pistol primer, enabling its adaptation to existing 9mm-sized plaforms. It is almost the equal of the 10mm Lite. It was an instant success, though some trainers insist that its recoil level remains daunting for some shooters. The 40 S&W's success likely slowed the demand for 10mm pistols markedly, because as felon repellent the 40 S&W does about as well as the 45 ACP in terms of stopping armed encounters.
As good as the 40 S&W is, the 10mm remains significantly more gun and more caliber than the 40 S&W. It is not a "Magazine-fed 41 Magnum" as its fanbois love to tout, but if you are a Hatcher Scale acolyte like I am then you rate it above the 357 Magnum by virtue of its diameter. 16 rounds of such persuasion in my Glock 20SF is quite comforting. Some of the loads used in stronger 10mm pistols run right on the heels of the 41 Magnum, but that is country I don't explore. 44 Magnums and a Ruger 45 Colt have that ZIP Code well-covered for me.
It appears that the 10mm Auto cartridge might be experiencing a rebirth of interest. SIG-Sauer has announced a variant in its P-320 design for the 10mm. I've loved the caliber for a long time, and have had at least one example in the safe for 30+ years.
The cartridge has an interesting history. The first noises about it occurred in roughly 1975, in Guns & Ammo magazine. Their writers' concoction used cut-off 224 Weatherby brass (IIRC--it was a belted case that was proprietary to Weatherby, maybe the 240? Not sure.) and used cast and jacketed bullets meant for the 38/40 WCF. Velocities imparted were in the 1100-1150 FPS neighborhood, and even a hard-boiled 45 ACP man like LTC Jeff Cooper said that the "40 G&A Magnum" had merit as a goblin stopper.
The idea didn't die out. In the early 1980's Dornaus & Dixon brought out their Bren Ten, a design based upon the CZ-75 system. It was a decent pistol, but for a variety of reasons the pistols were scarce, expensive, and magazines were (and are) VERY scarce. The cartridge itself was simpler than the G&A precursor, using a bit more common existing case (30 and 32 Remington, cut off) as its parent and either the 38/40 jacketed bullets or newer designs--like the Winchester Silvertip 175 grain JHP.
In the mid-1980s S&W went "all-in" with the 10mm, chambering their large-frame Third Generation 45 ACP series pistols (45XX models) in 10mm--the 10XX series. There were traditional double-action variants, DAO variants, decocking-lever variants, and at least 2 barrel length options (4-1/4" and 5"). FBI adopted the 10mm as an issue caliber, and that shop's 1986 Miami shootout experience figured highly in that move, I'm sure. I believe (2nd-hand info, from reliable folks) that FBI's Hostage Rescue Team have or had H&K MP-5 variants in 10mm among their toys and tools kit.
Life was good, right? Kind of, but the 10mm kicks more than the other 3 popular autopistol calibers. There are no plea bargains on the laws of physics. The FBI hires a wide range of people as agents, and the usual run of accountants and law school grads that get hired aren't often active in the arms sports. That recoil impulse from the Norma-level loads (200 grains @ 1200 FPS) or even the Silvertips (175 grains at 1225-1250 FPS) weren't manageable by a lot of recruits. Federal Cartridge Company cobbled up what has been called "The FBI Lite" loading, the usual 180 grain bullet run at 1030 FPS, that was a lot more manageable for the agents.
It didn't take long for another innovation to take hold--the 40 S&W. The shortened 10mm case was given a small pistol primer, enabling its adaptation to existing 9mm-sized plaforms. It is almost the equal of the 10mm Lite. It was an instant success, though some trainers insist that its recoil level remains daunting for some shooters. The 40 S&W's success likely slowed the demand for 10mm pistols markedly, because as felon repellent the 40 S&W does about as well as the 45 ACP in terms of stopping armed encounters.
As good as the 40 S&W is, the 10mm remains significantly more gun and more caliber than the 40 S&W. It is not a "Magazine-fed 41 Magnum" as its fanbois love to tout, but if you are a Hatcher Scale acolyte like I am then you rate it above the 357 Magnum by virtue of its diameter. 16 rounds of such persuasion in my Glock 20SF is quite comforting. Some of the loads used in stronger 10mm pistols run right on the heels of the 41 Magnum, but that is country I don't explore. 44 Magnums and a Ruger 45 Colt have that ZIP Code well-covered for me.
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
"They" Still do, still use a d train with them as I too have and receive brass so marked.
CW
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Excellent write-up and comments by CZ.
We are almost 40 years into the life span of the 10mm Auto and it certainly has an interesting history.
The gap between roughly 36 caliber and roughly 45 caliber is fairly wide and drive to find something in the middle has existed a long time.
When the 10mm Auto was developed circa 1983 (and thanks to CZ for some good history on that) the path was towards performance. SO, the 10mm Auto was a high-pressure cartridge from the start. The developers squeezed a lot of performance out of that package, and it was the guns that needed to catch up to that development. The Bren Ten was a commercial failure for reasons beyond the scope of this thread. But the cartridge showed promise and other manufacturers accepted the challenge. S&W and Glock did a lot to ensure the survival of the 10mm.
We are almost 40 years into the life span of the 10mm Auto and it certainly has an interesting history.
The gap between roughly 36 caliber and roughly 45 caliber is fairly wide and drive to find something in the middle has existed a long time.
When the 10mm Auto was developed circa 1983 (and thanks to CZ for some good history on that) the path was towards performance. SO, the 10mm Auto was a high-pressure cartridge from the start. The developers squeezed a lot of performance out of that package, and it was the guns that needed to catch up to that development. The Bren Ten was a commercial failure for reasons beyond the scope of this thread. But the cartridge showed promise and other manufacturers accepted the challenge. S&W and Glock did a lot to ensure the survival of the 10mm.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Reads like it is time to start smacking groundhogs and other critters that tend to ruin good farm ground and pastures.
Hawk
Well-Known Member
I'm still looking for a flash surpressed, high end load with 180 gr. cupped hollow points for use on the deer lease and in the woods.
We have boar hogs up to 450 lbs and we sometimes run across one when looking for a downed deer in the timber and high grass.
I have a great load with Blue Dot, but the fireball at night is literally blinding.
Someone has probably posted the solution, but I've forgotten it.
The problem is, at the current prices and availability, I don't really have the funds to order a bunch of powders online to try.
We have boar hogs up to 450 lbs and we sometimes run across one when looking for a downed deer in the timber and high grass.
I have a great load with Blue Dot, but the fireball at night is literally blinding.
Someone has probably posted the solution, but I've forgotten it.
The problem is, at the current prices and availability, I don't really have the funds to order a bunch of powders online to try.
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Hawk, I did a nite flash test in full size XD 40SW. 231 vs cfe pistol. 231 won as attested by me and 3 others. I'd heard cfe P was flash suppressed. Nope. 165gr cast and 4.5 of 231, IIRC the cfe was same. 231 gave a slight red 'glow' at the muzzle to the shooter, night vision came back real fast. Load is sufficient for med sized hogs.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
I would think most any powder not slower than 231 would work well for night fire. With heavy cast it would not surprise me if by 2 inches it was all consumed.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I haven't taken 'Muzzle flash' into account for my practice loads. The role of a lot of my handgun reloading is to cobble up a practice load that duplicates the ballistic performance of my factory carry loads, and I have left it at that.
These periodic ammo and component shortages have been a part of this hobby since at least 1999. Each succeeding drought seems more intense and longer-lasting than the previous shortage. We may well be obliged to carry reloaded ammunition in harm's way, though I loathe doing so. Factory ammo has sealed case mouths and primer annuli to retard intrusion of water or petrochemical elements into the cartridge, and the powders used by the ammomakers are ginned up to minimize muzzle flash.
My practice loads in 38 Special +P, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP all use WW-231. Now that hellish daytime temps are the rule in the desert where a lot of my shooting gets done, I think a night shoot to test out these loads would be in order. I already know the WW-296/H-110 does a great job of lighting up adjacent hillsides at dusk when firing magnum revolvers, and 2400 isn't far behind.
These periodic ammo and component shortages have been a part of this hobby since at least 1999. Each succeeding drought seems more intense and longer-lasting than the previous shortage. We may well be obliged to carry reloaded ammunition in harm's way, though I loathe doing so. Factory ammo has sealed case mouths and primer annuli to retard intrusion of water or petrochemical elements into the cartridge, and the powders used by the ammomakers are ginned up to minimize muzzle flash.
My practice loads in 38 Special +P, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP all use WW-231. Now that hellish daytime temps are the rule in the desert where a lot of my shooting gets done, I think a night shoot to test out these loads would be in order. I already know the WW-296/H-110 does a great job of lighting up adjacent hillsides at dusk when firing magnum revolvers, and 2400 isn't far behind.
