28 gauge shotgun legal for deer in WI 2016

[Elric]

http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/wm/WM0431.pdf page 13

Shotguns
• Rifled shotgun barrels of at least 18 inches in length are considered to be shotguns for the purpose of hunting deer if they fire a single projectile and are in the following gauges: 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28.

This is a blast from the past when Wisconsin was a lot more restrictive on rifles in the southern counties. We had a choice between muzzle loader or shotgun. No longer, but I was always interested in the 28. Unfortunately, there are few rifled barrels for the 28. Nice to try with a Ruger #1 or #3 or some other action with a better strenght than the old fashioned bolt action shotguns...

 

[KHornet]

I would question, from an energy standpoint, a 28 gage slug on deer.

 

[RBHarter]

A 28 GA is .550 if memory serves me .
Mr Hubble did some work in 28ga along with the 12FH . I'm sure the 28 would have no problem matching 54 cal BP performance with a Round Ball in a cylinder rifled bbl .

 

[300BLK]

A .54 patched roundball from flintlock is considered pretty fair medicine for deer, bear, and even elk.

 

[Pistolero]

No idea about the .28 ga slug, if such an animal even is marketed, but I was shocked at the pathetic
nature of the .410 slug when I won a Survival Gun, .22 LR over a .410, all steel.
My first thought was, OK, .22 for small game and a .410 slug if you run across a deer, that
should do it.
Then I checked it out, IIRC, it was a 90 gr
Foster type at about 1100 fps.......not a lot ahead of a .380 ACP.

I hope that the 28 is a lot better.

Bill

 

[300BLK]

A .395" roundball is 93gr, IIRC. .440s run closer to 125gr, .490s around 175gr, and .530s near 230gr.

That .410 with shot should be good for rats, snakes, and quail. With multiple buckshot in a 3", it should be OK for 2 legged varmints.

 

[RBHarter]

My 454s tip in at 141 dead soft and 140 from WW . Form out some 30-40 or 303 or find some 444 maybe even 460 SW treat it like a 45-60 straight . It should keep it well under the pressure limits and give you back a pretty lethal go getter . If it's rifled at all it should provide some accuracy. I had a Comanche single shot 45/410 . For giggles I loaded 9gr of Unique an over powder card several meat tray wads and a 45cal maxi ball cast of 120 crimped on the top band . It was effectively a 270 gr slug and the 10 inch bbl lobbed it out at 750 fps . Soft single 454 RB shot better and at 25yd in a dry clay powder bank became Cheerios .

The cavalry load for the 4570 was a 405 an top of just 60 gr of FFg.
We're hand loaders and casters 3031 is popular for a full case in a 45-70 ( please confirm that ) and might at a reduced rate make a 410 a great buck slayer .

 

[Pistolero]

Yes, those numbers are good for solid bullets, but Foster slugs are hollow, basically a thin shell.
The .410 slug is either 1/5 oz ( 87.5 gr) or 1/4 oz (109 gr), depending on manufacture.

I did a bit of research and I was low on the velocity, WW says their .410 slug does
1830 fps, Federal claims 1775 fps. That will help a lot, but it still isn't too impressive.

WW buckshot is three 000 (.35 diam) at 1300 fps. Still not much, but probably OK at
short ranges to get all three in the lungs. I'd avoid .410 factory loads for deer, but that has
little to do with the 28 ga. Perhaps handloads could make the .410 a good bit better, as
mentioned above.

Brenneke makes a 28 ga slug which is 5/8 oz (274 gr) at 1450 fps. That is right in there
with a .44 mag and should be fine for deer at the normal shotgun ranges.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

Did not realize that there was a 28gage slug on the market. Interesting.

Paul

 

[300BLK]

"Brenneke makes a 28 ga slug which is 5/8 oz (274 gr) at 1450 fps. That is right in there with a .44 mag and should be fine for deer at the normal shotgun ranges."

A .54 or .55 cal slug weighing 274gr at 1450fps should be considerably more devastating than the .570 roundballs over 60gr BP used in rifled muskets during the Civil War. I have taken a whitetail with a .570 PRB, and the buck made it about 25 yards before dropping over from the double lung shot.

A 28ga slug with the above specs would be FAR more effective than you might think!

 

[Pistolero]

I agree with you on the effectiveness, as I said - it should be as good as a .44 Mag, which is very effective. It is
larger diameter, which will help at impact, but definitely is inferior in long range ballistics. The last thing
of any interest with a shotgun shooting a slug is long range ballistics - it won't ever be used where that would
make any difference.

Your firearms history is a bit fractured, though. AFAIK, there was never any .58 cal round ball used in American
martial weapons of standard issue.

I have fired an original Civil War Remington 1863 rifled musket and the issue bullet was a .58 cal Minie bullet of some
460 gr wt over 60-70 gr of BP, not a round ball. AFAIK, the round ball was entirely done by the Civil War, replaced
with the Minie bullet. The last round ball US military long gun was the Harpers Ferry 1842 Musket .69 cal, replaced by
the 1855 rifled musket, .58 cal using the Minie ball, and the unsuccessful Maynard tape priming system. The
1861 model which replaced it was essentially the same as the 1855 rifled musket less the Maynard tape priming
system. The 1863 model was a minor improvement of the 1861 Springfield rifled musket.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

Shot a fair amount of rifled musket during my buckskinner days. You are correct regarding an issued charge w/round
ball. Have shot a number of Mimie's of various weights. Have an 1863 Rem rep(hangs over the fire place), and it is a good
shooter with most Minies. However, I shot it in a fair number of round ball events, and placed well with a patched round
ball. Much slower to load than a Minie, but in my musket at least, a tight patched round ball shot truer. Has been probably
10 years since it has been shot. Brad and I were both very respectable musket shooters way back when.

Oayk

 

[Elric]

AFAIK, there was never any .58 cal round ball used in American
martial weapons of standard issue. Bill

Didn't some Pennsylvania units use buck n ball? Not sure of the caliber. Close range was pretty impressive.

 

[KHornet]

Buck and ball was a smooth bore load, not for rifled muskets. It worked well in a Brown Bess (69 cal if I remember correctly) reasonably well within range limitations probably 50 yds or less.

 

[Pistolero]

By the time caliber was moved to the "small bore .58 cal" they were using rifling and the Minie ball, which we know is a hollow
based bullet with scraping rings, undersized so it can be rammed down a fouled bore, which the pressure of firing obturates
to fit the bore and scrape out some of the accumulated fouling, keeping it to a relatively constant and manageable level, and
giving an amazing improvement in accuracy.

The muskets were .69 and larger calibers - and musket is a smoothbore. You can load what you want, so I wouldn't be
surprised if folks did all sorts of non-traditional loads. They used grapeshot in the cannons, so why not buckshot or buck
and ball in the muskets. But that was over by the time they were using the Minie ball, at least as an official load, I have
no doubt that some individual at some time may have loaded a round ball or buckshot in a .58 cal rifled musket (what they
originally called them). Neither would have been very effective. If the round ball was any sort of a reasonable fit, you would
be jamming it into the fouling and very likely not be able to ram it all the way down to the charge, which could blow up the
gun. If it was a loose fit, you just turned your accurate rifle into an inaccurate musket......doesn't seem too likely that folks
would go backwards. How many folks turn their semiauto into a single shot in military service?

The issue ammo for the .58 cal rifled muskets was the Minie bullet, within a few years they were adding the trapdoor and
using .58 cal rimfire ammo in converted versions of the same .58 rifled muskets, followed another few years later by the "small
bore .45 caliber" in the .45-70 government model.

This happened in about 10 yrs, about 1855 to about 1865, for the rimfire .58 trapdoors, and in another 8 years they had
the .45-70 trapdoors. HUGE changes from a .69 cal rifled musket to a trapdoor Springfield cartridge rifle. The last issue .69
muskets were nearly unchanged since 1720s, 130 years, then suddenly rapid advancement to cartridges in 15 - 20 years.

It must have been an exciting time.

Bill

 

[300BLK]

Between the .58RF and 45-70 was the Allin conversion (trapdoor) in 50-70 from 1866 to around 1873. Percussion Sharps rifles were also converted to 50-70 after the Civil War. Don't forget those 50-70s!

 

[KHornet]

Agree Bill, that it must have been an exciting time! Rapid change is always exciting, and
for most on the receiving end of rapid change comes aggravation!

Paul

 

[Pistolero]

Yes, good point. They lined the barrels to drop caliber to 50. Yes, one of the most famous .50-70s was
Lucrecia Borgia, the name Bill Cody gave to his .50-70 trapdoor which he used to kill a huge number of
buffalo for the Army to eat. I think his was made in .50-70 rather than converted, but not
certain. I have an 1867 (IIRC) .50-70 Remington Rolling Block, US Army marked.

I have seen one of those conversion .50-70 trapdoor guns, you can see the liner inside the bbl.
It is about the same distance in time back to the Desert Storm war, as it was from when
the last muskets, the Harper's Ferry model, was being replaced (about 1856) with the first Minie bullet
firing rifled muskets to the 1876 Winchester center fire lever action, and the Colt SAA.


Bill

 

[KHornet]

We have progressed rapidly with individual weapons in the last 150 years. Although, I believe that
in reality and for the most part, we have produced weapons that have produced great fire power, but
not necessarily great accuracy in the hands of the average shooter. Seems like about 50 percent of
the rifles I see on the range are AR variations, and people being satisfied with Red dot sighting and
5-6" groups. Just my opinion.

Paul