30-30 powders

popper

Well-Known Member
Think I get a load for the 145PB, need to try the 170PB again & both @ 100 & chrony.
 

Attachments

  • CCF_000044.jpg
    CCF_000044.jpg
    51 KB · Views: 17

Reed

Active Member
I have had good luck with 18gr of IMR 4198 with the new style ranch Dog 311 165
Aluminum check 2 coats of BLL sized .309 crimped in the groove in RP brass in my Winchester 94.
I've used a similar load, 18.5 gr IMR 4198, 170 gr FNGC, but have found it a little position-sensitive. That got me adding a little Dacron to top it off. Without the Dacron and without tipping the barrel before firing, it averaged 1540 fps in my rifle. Without Dacron but tipping the barrel up, it averaged 1650 fps. With 18.0 gr and about 1/2 gr Dacron, it averaged 1693 fps.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Well, the magnetospeed works fine but they need to make a spacer that fits over the barrel band of levergun. The Rx7 load I thought was good was a no-go. 185gr GC with unique worked great but a little slow (1350 8 shot 1" @ 50). The 170gr PB had the lowest ES & SD (9) - still didn't shoot worth a darn. Neither the AC or HT 145 PB did well either - like a shotgun @ 100. They were in the high 1500 range. Shucks.
edit: all holes were round, 145PB ran about 1600 (where I wanted) but ES was ~100 - 3 shot tests for fps & 5 shots for accuracy. Rx7 is supposed to be good for light bullets, this data looks funny but I know the problem is bullet damage as some were jamming the lands. Base or nose damage? Try again a little shorter OAL. GC were last shot so no/minor leading. All are PCd. I post this for Waco as a one shot/load 'ladder' has no meaning. Finding a 'node' (by chrony) isn't as easy as one would think.
 
Last edited:

popper

Well-Known Member
Finally settled on a load for the 145 & 170 PB, 9gr. Unique, no filler. Just works. 19 Rx7 in the 185GC is good too. Finished with some FTX lever to clean the bore. Got it settled down to about an inch with the 22lr, pretty windy this morning.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I had some funky results with Rel 7 in .45-70, soured me on it. Have just a little left,
will probably not replace it when it is gone.

Bill

I tried R7 in my 458x2 American (which is about the same volume as the 45-70) and had inconsistent, erratic results. I was disappointed because R7 was my go to powder in my 375 Win, accurate, and consistent.
 
Last edited:

Hawk

North Central Texas
Dad had a Winchester "Golden Spike" carbine that he just had to shoot. I told him don't shoot it. It may be worth something someday. But nooo, he had to shoot it.
Loaded IMR 3031 behind 150 gr. Sierra bullets.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Ok I've got a question about these light loads of fast powders.. It sounds like none of you are using fillers, is this correct? All though it sounds like some are tipping muzzle up to position the charge. I'm just trying to keep things straight.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
correct.
the faster powders don't need the filler really.
some of them will benefit from a filler in smaller amounts but the majority don't need a filer to shot well.
most loads that require a filer are with medium speed rifle powders such as H-322, 4895 and varget when they are cut down to levels such as 26-29 grs in a 308 or 30-06 case.
other powders like 2400 will get along without a filer in those case sizes but show a definite preference to being positioned in the case consistently. [IE groups shrink]
even Unique can benefit from positioning or a filler to hold it against the primer when its volume gets low enough [say about 8 grs in the 30-30]
what those things tell me is you can at the point of positioning or using a filler.
A. use a filler.
or
B. switch to a faster easier to ignite burn speed powder.
C. switch to using a lot more of a much slower burn rate powder and fill the case up.

lets look at it like this.
30-30.
1800+- fps.
34grs of 4831 will get you there.
18grs of 2400 will too, and about 10grs of unique will do the trick also.
now once you sow down from that 1800 speed the 4831 becomes unusable because it doesn't burn clean anymore.
unique will start to show signs of velocity variations at about 8 grains and that is where you need to make the switch to either AB or C from above.
16grs of 2400 is just about at that same tipping point where it shows signs indicating a change in the load too.

contrast that with another faster easier to ignite powder such as American select or red-dot.
you can get them down to around 5 grains before they start to have ignition inconsistencies and show erratic performance.
but they have the ability to get you back up to that 1600 fps area again with no fuss or drama [other than your starting to get into jacketed pressures]

others like clays and titegroup could probably go down to 1 grain, but are limited on the other end and your stuck by pressure long before you reach a velocity much above 1200 fps or so.
clean/super cheap/simple/effective below that point though.

what all this means is what are your goals.
once you have a clear goal in mind [1600 fps in the 30-30 with a gas check]
picking a powder up near the higher end of its pressure window has a lot of advantages.
consistency is the main one, being able to avoid a filler is another.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Fiver,
Thanks, as Spindrift says, that is a very good post. Clears up my obvious questions. As I have a lot of Unique, 2400, and Red dot, at these small charges I'll be set and so will my kids. I've used fillers on medium to slow powders in the past, grudgingly, and the explanation you provide, makes a simple decision on powder selection, based on the desired load.
Thanks again!
 

popper

Well-Known Member
I've just gotten too lazy to use the dacron anymore. Seems that just below a 'real' rifle load they work just fine. But I'm using PB.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
This has been a great post about a cartridge I'm looking forward to cast for. OK, I used to cast back in the 70's and 80's to a limited basis, but mostly loaded jacketed stuff. Occasional casting did happen, but, nothing to get excited about. The reloading room has been a problem. It's moved more then I have. Kind of been not as together as it should have been. But, I just finished putting the last coat of paint and the last screw in the new room which has a dedicated casting bench with a range hood for ventilation. So when I wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning and can't sleep, well, now I've got something to do. Being retired will also help.
Anyway back to Waco's post. As I said the 30-30 is, along with, the 30-40, 30-06 the 30 caliber cartridges I am looking forward to casting for. The long necks are perfect for cast as you know. I've had some Lyman and NEI molds for a long time, and have added 1 Hoch and 3 NOE molds to the herd.

311316 Lyman, this one might prove to be a little fat. don't have 32-20 anymore, might make a good plinker
311-165 RF NOE
311041 Lyman
30-180 FN RCBS I've heard good things about this one
311-195 FN NOE
220308 GC RN NEI 06 & 30-40
310 227 Hoch nose pour 06 & 30-40
31 247 FN NOE 06 & 30-40

Picked up 30 cal, 2 - 338 cal, 4 - 35 cal, 1 - 41 cal, 2 - 44 cal NEI molds back in the 80's. 1 of the 35 & 41 & 2 of the 44 cal molds were built for SKS Industries. Love the 44 310 gr SKS's, good sixgun slug, but won't fit in my leverguns. If I remember right Walt owned NEI at that time till his death. Heard his kids ran NEI into the ground.

WACO, good thread, thanks
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it was his SIL.
the guy has the skills but not the giveadamn to run the business.
I don't understand it, but I'm not there either.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Got the 145 PB with BLL to work good till barrel leaded, change from BLL to PC 9 gr unique with no filler. Also should size the cases, one pushed back. Resighted the scope for FTX load. Got the drop for the 145 & 185 GC. Ready to go shooting now with the 30/30.

9351
 
Last edited:

mattw

Active Member
I use nothing other than good old 4895 with the Lyman 31141, about 25.5 grains of it and the bullet zips along at 1650fps.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
All those work, just trying to use up the Rx7. Have a pound of 3031 I haven't even opened. Most of my loads are set but with a bunch of 'try this' that I need to use first.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Late to the party......the 30/30 WCF was the first rifle caliber I cast bullets for, right at the start of my casting addiction in 1981. My 30/30 rifles have all been leverguns--I have never had possession of a Ruger #1 or the great bolt-action variants that have chambered the caliber. From folks that have such arms I have learned that the 30/30 can be as accurate as any other 30 caliber centerfire chambering with bullets it likes.

In assessing anything, I try to know and acknowledge my biases right from the beginning. With the 30/30, I view its world through the eyes of a hunter. To be honest, most of my firearms world is focused through that prism. Given the limitations posed by that outlook and by the platforms I have used the caliber with, I have never tried to achieve stellar accuracy with the caliber. The accuracy I have obtained from some of the Winchester and Marlin leverguns I have owned was adequate with both jacketed and cast bullets, but not exemplary. The usual castings were Lymans #311291 an #311041, with a little use of #311316 and a 118 grain plain-based derivative of that latter form I had made up for 32/20 revolvers. "316" did far better work in 30/30; jackrabbits loathe the combination with great vigor, and if given the chance I am sure coyotes would develop similar sentiments. Currently, the song dogs' pet hatred revolves around #311041 cast as a Bruce B Soft Point. A pet-killing uber-predator like the coyote deserves the extra heft and depth obtainable with the "041", and I don't mind parting with the extra metal to facilitate those experiences.

Off to the doctors for now.
 

dale2242

Well-Known Member
10 grains of Unique here.
Lyman 311291 cast of 50/50 lino/WW.
Around 1550 fps from a 14" Contender barrel.
This is a very accurate load and mild...dale