358156 GC

[358156 hp]

I have had some financial ups & downs in my life, and I know what it's like to be flat busted. Of course I've had to sell off guns to provide some urgently needed cash at times. At least one handgun has always been spared the trauma of adoption by strangers. My pick for "must have" has always been..... a 4 inch stainless .357. Either a 686, or a GP100. My current 686 and I have been together for over 30 years. I've always kept at least a couple of moulds around for the old girl too. You guessed it, Lyman 358156, a two cavity and a single cavity hollowpoint. And now the thread has come around full circle.

 

[CZ93X62]

YESSIR! The absolute last handgun I would EVER part with--a 4" D/A 357 Magnum.

All three of the major-magnum wheelgun rounds--357, 41, 44--make better rifle calibers than handgun calibers. That isn't the same as "bad", though.
In the context of the 38 Special HD/357 Magnum transition years.....let's take a close look at Ray Thompson's #358156 and #429244 SWCs. Both are gas check designs. Both have two crimp grooves--the topmost is meant for usage in magnum brass/short cylinder scenarios like we find in S&W Models 27 and 28. That lower crimp groove is meant for use with Special brass to increase powder space a bit in the 38 and 44 Specials. Elmer Keith's SWCs offered a bit more powder space in a different way, with longer noses and front drive bands on his SWC designs. I use both mens' designs and like them both. Is one "better" than the other? Not in my experience, but because I don't shoot nearly as much blasty Magnum ammo as I once did the Keith bullets get more usage than the Thompsons do presently.

 

[RBHarter]

I grew up with the 357 still a king in personal defense and all of engine block wrecking abilities .

A 357 was always on my list of must haves . It's that mysterious disruption beyond it's form thing I guess .
I keep one around even though I mostly run a 45 Colts now , bigger hole and all that .

 

[Rally]

YESSIR! The absolute last handgun I would EVER part with--a 4" D/A 357 Magnum.

All three of the major-magnum wheelgun rounds--357, 41, 44--make better rifle calibers than handgun calibers. That isn't the same as "bad", though.
In the context of the 38 Special HD/357 Magnum transition years.....let's take a close look at Ray Thompson's #358156 and #429244 SWCs. Both are gas check designs. Both have two crimp grooves--the topmost is meant for usage in magnum brass/short cylinder scenarios like we find in S&W Models 27 and 28. That lower crimp groove is meant for use with Special brass to increase powder space a bit in the 38 and 44 Specials. Elmer Keith's SWCs offered a bit more powder space in a different way, with longer noses and front drive bands on his SWC designs. I use both mens' designs and like them both. Is one "better" than the other? Not in my experience, but because I don't shoot nearly as much blasty Magnum ammo as I once did the Keith bullets get more usage than the Thompsons do presently.

I think it is because of the bark of the .357 being so rude. I'm the same way with the .32 mag and shoot more .32 long ammo in that. Same reason for avoiding the .327.

 

[CZ93X62]

I avoid a lot of that via handloading standard-weight plain-base SWCs at 900-1000 FPS in 90% of my Magnum brass. That ear-splitting stuff gets old in a hurry. 32, 36, 41, 44, or 45 caliber--none bounce back from the target paper, and they roll over small game and varmints just fine. The largest 3 diameters would probably do well on deer if the need arose at reasonable ranges, too.

 

[Walks]

I've heard that Rossi 92's were a bit scarce. As far as Marlin's go I know that they were the 3rd caliber 1894's that Remington tooled up for after the Purchase and move. And Quality Control has been a problem too.
However when My Kids shot Cowboy back in the late 1990's, early 2000's they used a Marlin 1894CS & Rossi 1892 with cut down buttstocks.
There was no shortage of Lever Guns back then.

But these days it seems the demand is only for short bbl'd rifles with big loop levers.
As far as big calibers go , I used a REM 700 in .270Win to take a 5x6 Elk & 4x4 fat Mule Buck in 1987 during CO combined season, both one shot kills. I killed a 300lb Boar in 1981 with a M1893 in 7x57 with one shot.
I killed My first deer in 1966 with a .257Rob'ts built on a M1917.
I could go on but We "know" that these days, Magnum is better.

 

[Walks]

I came around to a "medium" load in .357Mag & .44Mag by forced necessity. I used to shoot at the LAPD Harbor Pistol Range, back when it was open to the Public.
Same as the old LONG Beach Police Academy Range it was 25yrds only and no Magnum loads.

I worked up starting loads with Unique under the #358429 & #429421, respectively.
Finally ending up with 6.0grs in .357Mag & 9.5grs in .44Mag, that was as high as I could go without getting called out by the Range Master.
Gave a bit of the feeling of full power loads without the noise/recoil.
Of course the .357Mag case loaded with the long Keith #358429 would Not fit in My M28, so I just used a .38/44 load for it. Dry brush the chambers with a bronze brush and no problem with carbon build up.

These Days I Don't even shoot those. Got turned on to a light Cowboy Load in .44Mag cases by My Chiropractor about 12/13yrs ago. His Shooting Buddy retired out of state and He needed someone to load ammo for Him. He absolutely insisted that His Winchester Trapper in .44Mag would not feed .44Spl ammo. So all His ammo had to be loaded in .44Mag cases. And had to have the Single lload for both Rifle and his old Vaquero's in .44Mag.
I did however switch from Clays to Titegroup, He never noticed the difference. Now I use that same light load in My .44Mag Revolvers. And My .44Mag Rifles. And a similar light .357Mag load out of the Hodgdon Cowboy booklet dated 1/03.

Arthritis is a witch.

Still do Love a few full power loads with the #358156GC & #429244GC at the end of each shooting session. Gotta keep in practice.

And I would probably have a stroke trying to choose My one and only Favorite; M27 5" or Blackhawk 6 1/2".

 

[CZ93X62]

Same here--686 x 4", pre-27 x 6.5", or Bisley BH x 7.5". That last one does most of the intrepid load work these days.

 

[Bret4207]

Smith 19 4" is always going to be my favorite 357. It just feels right.

 

[Rex]

Old age and arthritis limits my .357 loads to around 6 grains Unique and I like my new-old bullet mould 's 150 grain bullet. I could get by just fine with a .38 Special but like the fact that I can use a 357. Don't ever think that a 38 Special won't kill a deer.
Once in a while when the weather is warm I sneak in a few 357s with a good dose of 2400 and these use a gas check bullet.
You know, I don't think I ever shot many guns or calibers that weren't fun.

 

[KeithB]

I can acknowledge the utility of a .357 but honestly I never have enjoyed the bark and snap of the magnums. I would rather have a 5 shot L frame or GP100 in .44 special instead of a 6 shot .357 in the same platform. And I can't control a J frame in .357 but a .38 J frame works for me. Guess it goes back to my basic philosophy of "need more power, get bigger engine, don't crank up a little engine to run right on the ragged edge". The hardware and my nerves both last longer that way...

 

[Bret4207]

5.5-6.5 gr Unique makes a pleasant shooting load in several older handgun calibers. Not a thing wrong with popping a 160 gr bullet out at 900fps from a 38/357 or a 250 at 850 from a 44 or 45. I'm reasonably certain none of the Mall Ninjas would want to stand down range and try and catch anything lobbed at them. The largest black bear skull I ever saw was shot with a 38 Spec 158 gr RN lead factory round. 581lbs. I've found the vast majority of the guys that worry over ballistics of their "CC" gun, (as they walk stealthily around in whatever color "condition" makes them happy), are probably never, ever going to actually get around to messing with any of the older stuff anyway. I figure it's nonet of their business anyway, so let the detractors do their detracting, I'll be happy with what I brought to the party.

 

[Rex]

Bert, in my book I have written that a 150 grain bullet over 6.5 grains Unique averaged 1086 our of my chrony out of my 4"686
so I figure 6 grains will be close to 1000. Won't know for sure until warm weather but it is pleasant to shoot and accurate when I can control my trigger finger.

 

[Walks]

As Kids growing up Our Dad would take Us out to the desert to "hunt" jackrabbits. It was his way of teaching Us Snap Shooting. We used .38-44 loads in M27/M28, Colt OP, Ruger and Colt SA's. My Dad favored a Colt SAA fitted with an adjustable rear sight and a ramp Front. He shot .45Colt with the #454424 over the standard PC for that cartridge, right out of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #1.
That's where We learned the wisdom of the SWC/FP over the RN for Hunting. And the dogs enjoyed the fresh cooked rabbits.

Later when I got a Chrony in 1989, I choreographed all those old loads. The Lyman # .358429 gave almost identical velocities when loaded with 5.5grs of Unique in .38-44 Cases and 6.0grs when loaded in .357Mag cases. When shot in My NM Blackhawk 6 1/2" bbl.
I think it was 970-1025 fps.

 

[Bret4207]

Strictly from memory 5.5grs Unique in my 44 Spec with a 429421 in my Bulldog and a 45BD out of the ACP cylinder in my BH both gave around 850ish The 358156 with the same load I thought was around 9-950 out of my 19 in mag brass, but I was erring on the side of caution. All I know is it's pleasant to shoot and works good. I tried some of St Elmers heavy Unique loads in my Bulldog, I think they were 7.5 grs? Too much fun for me!

 

[Walks]

Yep,
Keith suggested 7.5grs Unique as a light .44Spl load. And Skeeter Skelton Championed that Load for .44Spl too. I backed it down to 6.4grs for My old Original Bulldog. It just happened to be what my RCBS LIL' dandy rotor dropped, that was closest to 6.5grs.
These Days It's 4.1grs of Titegroup for Most .44Spl's. I also use 200-210grs over the same Powder Charge. My Cowboy Shooting load.
I load some .44Russian cases with 240rg RN from an old Lee #420-240-2R or a Lyman #429251 1cav, which My Dad told me was the Original Bullet for both.

 

[Bret4207]

I think the last loads for the 44 Spec I did were 6.0gr Unique and 429421. I'd have to check the book, but whatever they were they traveled through a cows forehead and down the neck beside the spine almost to her shoulder. I admit, she was skinny and sickly (why I put her down), but that's still nothing I want to be downrange of!

Elmer's idea of a "plinking load" was a little different than mine. I loved the guy, but there was a lot of banty rooster in play there.

 

[Brad]

My standard 44 special load is the NOE version of the HG 503 over 4 gr of Titegroup.

 

[CZ93X62]

It has been a while since I've had a 44 Special in the safe. Great caliber, and much of my 44 Magnum shooting these days tales the form of "Skeeter's Load", Lyman #429421 in the 900-1000 FPS ZIP Code. Docile in the Rugers, all-day loads in Magnum cases with 8.5 grains of Unique or (more frequently) 9.5 grains of Herco.

 

[358156 hp]

Allens post reminds me of one dark day during the first great powder famine. I was hitting the local gun stores, hoping to find some Unique. I was in one store behind a couple of guys, the know-it-all types. As it turned out, they were looking for Unique as well. Sadly, all that was left in this shop was two pounds of Herco, and the guys only wanted Unique, so they passed on it. I was shoving money at the clerk for the Herco before the pair even reached the door. When you think of Herco, think of a really slow burning lot of Unique. On that particular day, this was the last two pounds of powder I could find for sale in town. And it was mine. Living through the famines can make a hoarder out of a saint. My Mom grew up during the depression, and was a first class hoarder/accumulator. I learned from the best.