45ACP/super Compensator .....
- Thread starter wquiles
- Start date
wquiles
Well-Known Member
OK, I made several 45 Super handloads to try. They fire, but the action is not cycling properly as you can clearly see in the video.
I was using Power Pistol and 800x powder with an 185gr JHP bullet, at about 550 ft-lb of energy (not too hot). I still have to measure the case expansion (I measure before of course to have a baseline), but I will still have to play with the spring to get everything to work.
Recoil-wise, definitely "pleasant", but of course much louder than "normal" due to the comp. It does not "feel" like firing something with more ft-lb than a 230gr ball load (about 350-375 ft-lb). I am hooked for sure
Video from range:
Will
I was using Power Pistol and 800x powder with an 185gr JHP bullet, at about 550 ft-lb of energy (not too hot). I still have to measure the case expansion (I measure before of course to have a baseline), but I will still have to play with the spring to get everything to work.
Recoil-wise, definitely "pleasant", but of course much louder than "normal" due to the comp. It does not "feel" like firing something with more ft-lb than a 230gr ball load (about 350-375 ft-lb). I am hooked for sure
Video from range:
Will
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wquiles
Well-Known Member
I was using the "Standard" commander recoil spring - fairly new too, which I believe is right at 20 pounds, and looking at the slow-mo, I think that the slide simply does not go back far enough. Even though it is just a prototype, the brake is working well enough to slow down the slide dramatically. What smaller recoil spring weights should I try next?
I now measured all of the data. Sized cases measured at .471" on micrometers:
Factory 45ACP +p was right at .470" (Barnes) and .471" Hornady:
So it looks like "in my barrel", I am just barely above factory +p levels.
The only thing I noticed in terms of pressure signs are that the Rem Small Primers seem a little "soft" as you can see in the attached photos - they appear "scratched" a little, but they don't look "flat" either. Comments/suggestions?
Images:
Barnes +P after:
Hornady +P after:
I tested all reloads to make sure they loaded in my barrel:
Fired Federal small primer cases - soft primers?
I now measured all of the data. Sized cases measured at .471" on micrometers:
- After firing the 10.5gr Power Pistol = .476"
- After firing the 10.5gr 800x = .478"
- After firing the 11.0gr 800x = .478"
Factory 45ACP +p was right at .470" (Barnes) and .471" Hornady:
- After firing the Barnes +p ammo = .477"
- After firing the Hornady +p ammo = .477"
So it looks like "in my barrel", I am just barely above factory +p levels.
The only thing I noticed in terms of pressure signs are that the Rem Small Primers seem a little "soft" as you can see in the attached photos - they appear "scratched" a little, but they don't look "flat" either. Comments/suggestions?
Images:
Barnes +P after:
Hornady +P after:
I tested all reloads to make sure they loaded in my barrel:
Fired Federal small primer cases - soft primers?
Ian
Notorious member
Soft primers will flow and shear off like that. I like only about "plunk" minus .005" for headspace, it limits funky primer excursions out/back into to the pocket.
I have the Power Pistol load data from Ace himself recorded somewhere, will have to see if I can find it. I use Starline .45 Super brass in mine. 20 lbs should be plenty of spring for the Commander. If timing is an issue you could experiment with different firing pin stops, I.E. larger radius will unlock sooner and compensate somewhat for that chunk of metal you added to the muzzle.
I have the Power Pistol load data from Ace himself recorded somewhere, will have to see if I can find it. I use Starline .45 Super brass in mine. 20 lbs should be plenty of spring for the Commander. If timing is an issue you could experiment with different firing pin stops, I.E. larger radius will unlock sooner and compensate somewhat for that chunk of metal you added to the muzzle.
Ian
Notorious member
I shouldn't put this on the internet but here goes: Federal 150 primers, 230-grain FMJ, overall length as recommended by bullet manufacurer, 8.0 to 9.0 (max) Alliant Power Pistol. He didn't give me any data for lighter bullets. It was implied that this is only for brass marked ".45 Super".
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Alliant online reloading data gives 8.1 as max for PP under a 230 jbullet. With the Speer copper plated
230 RN they are reporting 985 fps, but with 230 TMJ, only 916, and with the Gold Dot 230, the limit is
down at 7.4gr at 881 fps.
Just for some reference points on that load.
Bill
230 RN they are reporting 985 fps, but with 230 TMJ, only 916, and with the Gold Dot 230, the limit is
down at 7.4gr at 881 fps.
Just for some reference points on that load.
Bill
wquiles
Well-Known Member
Thank you guys for the load data. I actually have found some good sources, the most extensive being the Glock community:
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/the-all-new-big-45-super-thread.1593879/
Of course I know all too well that that data does not translate apples to apples to the 1911, but they have provided lots of work on how they slowly worked out the loads, what too look for, expected speeds and ft-lb, which powders provide the most energy with the lowest pressure, and brass holds out better, etc.. Quite amazing, even if it is a very long read.
I also have been in contact with one of the members there ("es350") who not only has been working on the Glock and 1911 at Super and 460 Rowland levels, but also a fellow machinist and makes his own compensators, and even for a while made them for others in that Glock forum. He did a lot of experimenting on port width, spacing, # of ports, etc., and shared it with me his guidelines/conclusions, which is what I am using to build my first "production" comp soon (spoiler, it will be a 3x port design).
In the mean-time, I want to find what spring will work well with my less-than-efficient prototype comp, so I ordered several progressive (variable power) springs from Wolffe to try out
Will
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/the-all-new-big-45-super-thread.1593879/
Of course I know all too well that that data does not translate apples to apples to the 1911, but they have provided lots of work on how they slowly worked out the loads, what too look for, expected speeds and ft-lb, which powders provide the most energy with the lowest pressure, and brass holds out better, etc.. Quite amazing, even if it is a very long read.
I also have been in contact with one of the members there ("es350") who not only has been working on the Glock and 1911 at Super and 460 Rowland levels, but also a fellow machinist and makes his own compensators, and even for a while made them for others in that Glock forum. He did a lot of experimenting on port width, spacing, # of ports, etc., and shared it with me his guidelines/conclusions, which is what I am using to build my first "production" comp soon (spoiler, it will be a 3x port design).
In the mean-time, I want to find what spring will work well with my less-than-efficient prototype comp, so I ordered several progressive (variable power) springs from Wolffe to try out
Will
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wquiles
Well-Known Member
Got the Wolff springs:
Just on the bench, I already decided the 20lb was too strong, so I am starting with the 18lb, and of course taking the 16lb to the range as well.
I also went ahead and replace the firing pin spring with the new one that comes with the 20lb spring:
And I got a new batch of bullets to try - 185gr JHP, Lee 230 gr TC-TL, and Accurate 250gr WFN-GC:
Cool to see the meplat differences:
and the OL differences:
All tested for fit in the barrel:
And in the magazine:
Lets see how they do at the range, hopefully this coming weekend.
Will
Just on the bench, I already decided the 20lb was too strong, so I am starting with the 18lb, and of course taking the 16lb to the range as well.
I also went ahead and replace the firing pin spring with the new one that comes with the 20lb spring:
And I got a new batch of bullets to try - 185gr JHP, Lee 230 gr TC-TL, and Accurate 250gr WFN-GC:
Cool to see the meplat differences:
and the OL differences:
All tested for fit in the barrel:
And in the magazine:
Lets see how they do at the range, hopefully this coming weekend.
Will
wquiles
Well-Known Member
Couldn't possibly work, they're the wrong color.
Are those tracers? Or cherry flavored?
Still jarring to see the powder coated candy colors.
Bill
Well, my next batch of PC powder from Smoke is JD Green and Traffic Purple - probably still the "wrong" color, but they will look "different" for sure
wquiles
Well-Known Member
So I finally went to the range, and tried my second 45 Super reloads. Here is a cool slow motion video one of the fellow shooters took for me:
Slow motion video
In terms of amount of gases, it is really impressive how much gas the comp has to work with. Look at these two frames from the same shot:
Slow motion video
In terms of amount of gases, it is really impressive how much gas the comp has to work with. Look at these two frames from the same shot:
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wquiles
Well-Known Member
Target, slow fire, 7 yards. Not great shooting on my part, but the best I can do with open sights at my age. Low left (185gr JHP), High left (230gr Lee), Low right (250gr WFN), Top right (Taurus 357Mag):
Out of the 30 rounds fired, and cases recovered, I got the same primer "smear" from the soft cups I saw last time, but this time I had two primers punctured:
Case measurements were again in the .477" range, with a 2-3 closer to .4778" range, so about a similar to slightly higher pressure as last time. Recoil was stout/strong, but manageable thanks to the compensator. Even if possible/safe, I would "not" like shooting these "without" a comp
The 18lb Wolff progressive spring from Wolffe worked great for the first 15 rounds (5 from each load), but by the time I went to the next 15 rounds 30 in total), I had the occasional "slide not going all the way back" which happen in my first outing. I remembered the "limp wrist" syndrome that affects Glocks, and made a more conscious effort to have a "very" strong/firm hold (more than normal) and the last rounds cycled fully, so this tells me that I am probably need to drop to the 17lb spring to get everything cycling to work with my normal strong grip.
Pictures of the barrel and frame after shooting:
Will
Out of the 30 rounds fired, and cases recovered, I got the same primer "smear" from the soft cups I saw last time, but this time I had two primers punctured:
Case measurements were again in the .477" range, with a 2-3 closer to .4778" range, so about a similar to slightly higher pressure as last time. Recoil was stout/strong, but manageable thanks to the compensator. Even if possible/safe, I would "not" like shooting these "without" a comp
The 18lb Wolff progressive spring from Wolffe worked great for the first 15 rounds (5 from each load), but by the time I went to the next 15 rounds 30 in total), I had the occasional "slide not going all the way back" which happen in my first outing. I remembered the "limp wrist" syndrome that affects Glocks, and made a more conscious effort to have a "very" strong/firm hold (more than normal) and the last rounds cycled fully, so this tells me that I am probably need to drop to the 17lb spring to get everything cycling to work with my normal strong grip.
Pictures of the barrel and frame after shooting:
Will
Ian
Notorious member
Cool. Cherry and Grape flavors taste better than copper flavor anyway. Good to see I'm not the only person who holds a 1911 in the wrong hand.
We beat up the smeared primer thing in a thread a while back, but I don't remember what the consensus was. Pretty sure it's a problem with timing. Since there's no such thing as a 1911 firing pin being too long (they are capable of extending halfway to the end of the chamber, literally), the pierced primers are due to over-pressure or cup excursion from the case due to excess headspace. I'd look at changing the firing pin stop to keep it locked up a little longer.
We beat up the smeared primer thing in a thread a while back, but I don't remember what the consensus was. Pretty sure it's a problem with timing. Since there's no such thing as a 1911 firing pin being too long (they are capable of extending halfway to the end of the chamber, literally), the pierced primers are due to over-pressure or cup excursion from the case due to excess headspace. I'd look at changing the firing pin stop to keep it locked up a little longer.
wquiles
Well-Known Member
The thing is that I already changed the firing pin stop to the square/flat type
http://www.egwguns.com/1911-parts/o/s-firing-pin-stop-ser-80-45-ss/
I wonder if it is timing due to me not-quite fitting this threaded barrel properly? I have the kit with the 5x links and I am not entirely sure I got everything perfectly. Maybe the slide/barrel is unlocking two early?
http://www.egwguns.com/1911-parts/o/s-firing-pin-stop-ser-80-45-ss/
I wonder if it is timing due to me not-quite fitting this threaded barrel properly? I have the kit with the 5x links and I am not entirely sure I got everything perfectly. Maybe the slide/barrel is unlocking two early?
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Ian
Notorious member
Use a depth mic to determine how much lug engagement you have with the slide. IIRC somewhere around .025" is minimum, .035" is better. Most aftermarket "drop in" barrels have the wrong angle cut on the barrel ramp and drop way too soon. A photo of the barrel feet/ramp would be helpful. The link length is kind of a last-stage fit item after the slide has been tightened and the barrel fitted between the slide stop pin and barrel hood so the firing pin hole is on center with the bore/chamber. After those items are lined up, the proper link is selected to operate within those tolerances. If it isn't set up right in the first place, changing the link won't fix the problem because it is not strong enough nor intended to be used to force the barrel into lockup....that is the job of the barrel ramp.