45ACP/super Compensator .....

wquiles

Well-Known Member
Finally got to the range. The new GI mags worked flawlessly loading everything 100% when dropping the slide on a new mag. Of the 40-50 rounds fired, I did have 2 failures when loading a round during the full recoil cycle on the large 250gr bullets, so might have to play a little still with the overall length and the main recoil spring.

I tried 2x loads with 185gr JHP - those were not high-pressure ones, and it was more to test functionality. All good there, case expansion was good, no primer problems. GI mags worked perfectly. Basically, this setup works well with the lower-end bullet weight.

Now, with the higher-end bullet weight, as I mentioned above, cycling with the 250gr is not perfect. I tried 3x loads with the 800x at 9.0gr, 9.3gr, and 9.5gr. The fired cases are here left to right in that order (5x of the 9.0, then 5x for the 9.3, and 2 for the 9.5). Yes, after seeing the cases on the 9.5gr, I decided to stop there. At least on this setup, with those soft primers, and the 250gr bullet, 9.3gr 800x is my top, safe load:
45Super_cases.jpg



Recoil-wise, the v2 comp worked great, even with the top load of 9.5gr 800x. I tried video using a holder for the cell phone, but I goofed and aimed it a little too low so hard to appreciate the recoil and rise. I will try getting video recorded again in the near future.

However, I was able to capture too frames on two separate videos where you can clearly see the "jets" on each of the 3x ports of the suppressor, decreasing in magnitude as one would expect as the pressure drops. This was on an iPhone 8 on "SLO-MO", so not going to capture at an incredible frame speed, but still totally "cool" to be able to capture and "see" this stuff!

Since it is not too bright, I think that if one needed/wanted to "show" somebody what a comp does, this would be a good picture to share:
V2_comp.png



This second shot from the other video clip is even more blurry, but captured probably at the peak of brightness/flash:
V2_comp_Really_Bright.png



I also shot the larger 250gr on my 460Rowland carbine, and went up into the 10.0gr and 10.5gr range, with 460R Starline brass and also with the 45ACP Federal small primer I used on the 1911: no problems of any kind, no pierced primers, no excessive pressure signs, case expansion was good etc., accuracy with a plain 1x red dot was slightly less than 1" at 25 yards, so this 250gr bullet is a terrific setup for the carbine. And the GI magazines worked 100% of the time with this bullet weight and OL - man I think I should buy 1-2 more of these magazines!

So right now, given the timing issues on my 1911 setup, and pierced primers when shooting the 250gr bullets, I am inclined to stay at the 9.3gr for it, and also consider a slightly lower weight bullet for the next load testing, like in the 200-ish range, perhaps the Lee 230gr TL-TC that I have. That might be a better bullet weight given my particular gun/setup/comp.

Will
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I agree on the high frame rate camera. Would be great to see what our bullets look like when exiting the muzzle.

The flame coming from the ports is great.
 

Ian

Notorious member
We've been over that camera thing a few times, the technology is becoming less expensive but still out of sight for me.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
1000 frames per second isn’t bad price wise but we need more like 30-40,000 frames per second and that is pricey.
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
My S10+ has a super slow motion that captures 900-ish frame per second, but only for 0.8 seconds - good luck manually trying to match that short window to the actual trigger press :rofl:

Now, that mode also has a motion detection function which I have not tried. I guess if I have the pistol on a rest, on the bench, and a by-stander presses the record, it "might" work, but I wouldn't bet money on it ;)
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
Two updates:
1) After reading about firing pin replacements/options to do something about the primer piercing, I decided to try a lighter mass Titanium Firing Pin:
TI_FP.jpg



Here you can see the OEM FP on top, and the new Ti on the bottom:
TI_bottom.jpg



2) My buddy from the Glock forum was also asking me to investigate the hammer spring. He felt that perhaps a stronger hammer spring could help with the timing by helping delay the slide moving backwards. So I bought two to try out:
Hammer_Springs.jpg


Before swapping parts, I first noticed that on the "fired" position the hammer had "play" back and forth - there was no tension on the hammer. Strange. So I took it out and compared against the new 22lbs spring - you can see the new one being longer:
shorty_vs_new_22lb.jpg


When I installed the new 22lbs spring, there is zero play on the hammer now. Yes, the trigger pull is now a tad higher, but nothing night-n-day difference. Pulling the slide back is a little harder now as well. Nothing conclusive until I can go back to the range, but it is possible that the weak/old hammer spring was not helping slow down the slide as much as it "should".

I made 20 more rounds with the same 250gr WFN-GC bullet and 800x powder to try again soon. Lets see how it goes :)

Will
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I suspect that that short/weakened/worn spring may have been a significant contributor .

That firing pin must be really light , scaled against the steel pin that is .
I wonder how much difference the weight of the fp makes in slide movement ......... I know it's only a few grains but as the racers say ounces make lbs and it matters a lot when their in the right/wrong place .
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
Yes, the Ti part is "very" light. Incredibly so when held in the hand compared to the steel part.

The reason I am trying the really light weight Ti firing pin is to see if it helps with the pierced primers. I am hoping that the lighter mass will make the firing pin will travel "less" and "go back" quicker. Just another thing I wanted to try.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Just don’t pierce primers, those Ti pins don’t hold up well. That is why my ARs never got a Ti pin.
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
I know I'm out of my end of the wadding pool where I have just enough knowledge to be really dangerous :) .

The light parts and heavy hammer springs in general are to improve lock time , sear break to primer strike time , as applied broadly . Many of the autos , probably all of them rely on the bolt/slide weight , spring tension and friction resistance of the whole assembly being within a certain window of balance . The 1911 will allow a rather large window of slop , it was after all born in a time when .001 was tight and .003 was just normal wear . It's also intended to be safety run full of muddy water , watery mud , and blow sand with questionable ammo .
But if you go too far out of balance even with a GI long slide they will misbehave . Not long ago I read about a guy that "fixed" a hammer spring and added a recoil spring kit , fitted a new barrel bushing , light parts trigger kit and it ran 230 +P like a Swiss watch for about 100 rounds then started having FTF and in another 25-30 stove pipes . He field stripped hosed it out slapped it back together and in 35 rounds was back to stove pipes .
After weeks of chasing bugs and spring swapping etc he realized that the clock work running he had was from being right on the edge of all the springs top edge and very slick lube when he assembled it .
His barrel bushing was heat swell too tight , like 0005 too tight .
The heavier recoil spring was hiding the bushing while everything was cool , clean , and wet . The 18# hammer spring unloaded the balance for the heavier recoil springs and the lightened parts were aiding the unlock but didn't do anything for the return to battery . I don't remember all of the particulars but he did finally call and talk to wolf I think and get a spring kit from them which immediately gave up the bushing bug as well . After that he paired up springs from more knowledgeable sources and ended up with something like perfect sets for 38 super auto , 460 Rowland and 9mm all just marginal for 45 ACP at the extremes .

Like I said out of my end of the kiddie pool .

I do have a High Power that's ready for a spring set though so Thi is all of interest in terms of how the package works as a whole .
 

Ian

Notorious member
The hammer being floppy at full-down due to too short of a spring is probably 99% of the problem. The slide and barrel were moving back before the pressure had dropped as much as it was supposed to, causing the firing pin to rip upward through the primer cup.

Remember, the recoil spring adds almost no force to resist slide movement, the hammer spring and firing pin stop do that.
 
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wquiles

Well-Known Member
Went to the range today and tried a few rounds. I started with the 185gr JHP to test things. Functioning and the whole recoil cycle - perfect and smooth:
short video clip

So definitely changing the hammer spring made everything work smoothly - glad to have that part figured out!

I then tried the 250gr bullets. The again worked flawlessly, so the springs are now in "balance", however I still got a couple of pierced primers, so of course I stopped right away. Going to abandon the 250gr on the 1911 platform, and leave it for the 460Rowland carbine where it works flawlessly. I will work with lower bullet weights on the 1911 from now on, including a potential 200gr plus custom Lee (posted that in the mold sub-forum).

Will
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Glad you found and fixed that problem.

I did a lot of experimentation with 250-255 grain bullets in the 1911 and eventually concluded that 230 is heavy enough, though I never had any pierced primers with the overweight bullets. Anything heavier than 230 now gets seated in a .45 Colt case. Fun to go outside the box a little, though.
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
My "final" loads on this project were 800x at 9.0gr and a max of 9.5gr. Yesterday at the range I measured these with the Lab Radar with the 9.0gr loads:

45 Super, Ranch Dog 9.0gr 800x, COL= 1.240": Average: 1037fps / ES = 39 / SD = 14.

My goal was in the 500-600ft-lb range, and these averaged about 560 ft-lb of energy at the muzzle.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I have some data from Ace somewhere (my FIL used to moonlight with him), may have given it to you already. He used Power Pistol in the Super.
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
I have some data from Ace somewhere (my FIL used to moonlight with him), may have given it to you already. He used Power Pistol in the Super.

I would love to have the Power Pistol load data to try out - please :)