9mm AR15 pistol

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
SO, I am getting stuff together for a AR in 9mm. I got the lower. It is a PSA billet set up for Glock mags. i am invested in a G19 pretty heavy already. So it makes sense to stay with what I have. And I always wanted a 9mm AR but they have always been out of my budget and we were never able to have a SBR here before. But ever since the brace has come out why not???

I think I have settled on a 7-10" upper. Either a PSA or a FM Products side charger. Just wondering if anyone has anything like this and what you are loading for it? I cast up a bunch of the LEE 120 TC a few nights ago. I also just got in a few pounds of Green powdercoat from Smoke over on the other forum. Man that stuff works WAY better than HF powder!

But so far all I have is the assembled lower. I have to get some sights or a decent red dot. I have a scope on one of my shotguns I can use for working up a load but it will not be on it for long. I think it is a 2-6X
 
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freebullet

Guest
Are those gas guns or straight blowback?

Bill

Yes, blowback.

On ours a heavy buffer / spring tamed the wildness quite well. With the buffer/spring we used it regulated the speed down to about 650 rounds per min. Shoots cush like you'd expect a 9mm rifle to.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I read your adventure. It has been common knowledge that these will not run HP bullets. I plan on running the Lee truncated cone bullet so it should run pretty well. Unless it is too large in diameter to chamber. If they fit in my CZ75 they should fit in these.

This is the lower I got. The buffer that came with it is a solid buffer. It must be the 9mm one. I have a carbine one that I filled with lead that is a little longer. I will have to weigh it to see which one is heavier. If I have problems when I get it together I can throw it in if it weighs more. Or I will have to get a different one.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...stol-moe-shockwave-black-lower-516447578.html
 
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freebullet

Guest
It has been common knowledge that these will not run HP bullets. I plan on running the Lee truncated cone bullet so it should run pretty well. Unless it is too large in diameter to chamber. If they fit in my CZ75 they should fit in these.

Well, what a hunk o' junk then, yeah? How un-adventurous of folks to accept such performance without hope for remedy. On a caliber known for deflection and penetrating to deep with non expanding bullets. Mine was doing pretty well with those plated hp's after the mods. It feeds the mp359-129hp sized down to .356 just fine now. Glad I didn't accept...

I have every Lee production 9mm mold, most of the mp line in that size, & a couple noe offerings. None would chamber unless loaded scary short. Wouldn't chamber wwb freely either. It didn't have a leade. Went from chamber to tight rifling. It would only chamber slender tapered noses loaded short. Far as lead I couldn't imagine it would've chambered anything other than hbwc's before the throating reamer.

You want that leade or you can't reach the rounds true top end. It's how those crazy fellas are trying to "make major" in 9mm, using all the case capacity.

Realise this one is a late gen1 or early gen2. New ones they're calling gen4, may be entirely different. Ain't trying to scare ya off of one, just be prepared it may require extra input.

The psa buffer was about 5.3 oz, ours is running the 7.5 oz & heavier spring for easy reference.

Good or bad I hope you'll share the journey. I'm excited for ya. I'd be inclined to go with a 10" barrel.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Thing I am afraid of is the barrel they are selling is nitrated. Isn't that harder than chrome? Would that not ruin a reamer? If it had to be done?
 
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freebullet

Guest
I don't think the inside is. I'm guessing they plug it for that process. It's shiny inside, is why I guess that. If it was done inside, it has not seemed to bother it either way. I've not been nice to It. Just cleaned, first time after 4k.

It did need quite a number of turns. Could be smoothed/lengthened just a hair more. It didn't kill my reamer, have used on several barrels since. I used the Manson 35 pistol throating reamer, turning by hand, in a tap holder.

Let's hope what you get doesn't suffer the same issue. The reamer is only about 40$ anyway. Even the premium "alpha wolf" barrel needed more reaming than I've ever had to do, my luck, I guess.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Nitride or Melonite is a high temp amonia fog process , grossly over simplified in that statement .
Nitride was/is used in air cooled engine cylinders to extend the life of otherwise plain steel . The Melonite treatment is very similar . Whatever the pretreatment finish is is what you get out of it . It is a chemical case hardening expressly for wear/abrasion resistance . I've read that it has to be scuff ground to be able to drill it in typical barrel steel . I've also read that if a treated chamber is altered it results in irregular barrel wear . I would presume concaving to the hardened edges where normal wear occurs .
An SS barrel would eliminate the issue as does turning a blank .
 

Ian

Notorious member
I tried reaming a nitrided .45 ACP barrel's throat and it just folded up the reamer flutes like an envelope flap. Turned a rod to the contour I wanted and lapped it out with VC compound and a drill. Haven't shot it enough to wear, but I avoid melonited barrels in calibers I think might need throat work. Currently I'm stuck with a clearly-marked "5.56x45 NATO" barrel which expands primer pockets so badly that primers fall out and jam the action when using actual military ammunition, but shoots ".223 Remington" civvy ammo fine. Throat checks to be a .223, have a Wylde reamer, but I'm not going to ruin the $150 reamer trying to fix an $80 barrel. Plus there's that rifle throat erosion thing when grinding out the coating.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Thats what I thought about the coating. It is harder than the hardchrome plating.

I sent FM Products a email and they were not very specific. All they would say was they have not heard any reports of problems with any reloads. BUT, they wanted to hear back from me if I get their upper. So that means to me that they don't know. But everything I do hear about them is they will take care of you no matter what no questions asked. They don't care if you messed it up or broke it they will replace it for free.

So I might just wait a little bit till the one from them gets back in stock I want.
 
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freebullet

Guest
That makes sense, Tomme boy.

This alpha wolf is advertised as cast friendly. It's 416 ss coated in nitride, that explains why it was such a nightmare to ream. My reamer still works after having done that. The barrel is great now, it wouldn't chamber armscor, wwb, or any of my standard cast offerings. First time I used a throating reamer in a drill. Still, I went slow, cleaned & checked the plunk test often.

When creating a throat where there was none it will want to catch hard at first. That's why I use a thicker oil, it helps prevent that. I could have easily ruined it on that alpha wolf, cast friendly.... after an hour of finishing work.

So, I got them both out. Couldn't get a throat pic on the ar9 to save my life.
rps20190123_003846.jpg

rps20190123_003924.jpg

That one is really dirty but turned out fine. Based on how hard this one was I'd guess the psa one wasn't done on inside or it's a thinner lame coating comparatively. Use to be rifling straight to chamber, no bevel, or room for a bullet at all on either when new.
 
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Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Looks like Monday my upper will be here. I went with the 8" PSA one. PA raised the price almost $100 so that was the deal breaker for me.

I got in some green powder coat to try from Smoke. It covers way better than the HF stuff. Man it is great stuff. Waiting to get the upper before I size any bullets to see what the chamber and throat will feed. Going to start with the Lee 120TC bullet.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Cool. Keep us posted. I remember Freebullet saying some of the 9mm barrels have zero throat whatsoever and need to be reamed to work with cast bullets. I can't vouch for the AR 15 stuff but the psa-10 upper I just got would still be considered really quite excellent at twice the price.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I took it out and shot a bunch of powder coated 120gr TC bullets through it. It shot really well. Had a few rounds that did not eject. But I think that is from not loaded to warm. I was not too sure where to start so I loaded a few at different levels to find where it would cycle at.

Now I know where this one will cycle with 231 and this bullet. But I think I am going to go with something a little more peaky for powder. I have a lot of tightgroup. I am going to try that next. The 231 seemed to shoot really soft all the way up to the max load in the Lyman book. Just did not like it. And I have always shot 231 in 9mm and liked it before this.

Oh, it chambers 0.3575" easy! Just not very long. I had to seat the TC bullet just back from the edge. You can load and eject the round without any sticking.
 

Ian

Notorious member
231 ain't what it used to be 25 years ago. Glad you got it working.....are you still wearing that big, cartoonie grin we all get when we've had too much fun with a PCC?
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Yep! I Bumped a full mag too! Just had to. I want to stick with a ball powder. And right now all I have is tightgroup. I think.

Anyone have any word on powdercoat being less pressure than regular lubed bullets? I swear I could hear the difference between powdercoat and lubed bullets loaded the same. I could feel it too. The PC seemed like it was less PSI. The brass was not thrown as far either. So to me that means it was less PSI.

I don't have a chrono right now as a wad from my shotgun decided to go right through my screen. So I need to get a new chrono. So I can not verify if it is slower or not. I don't shoot a whole lot of PC so I can not say??????
 

Ian

Notorious member
It's pretty common to have to increase powder charge 4-5% to get back where you were before coating.