A lathey day....

[Brad]

I spent much of today playing on the lathe. After screwing up a few parts I got 3 new sizing punches made for the Star along with a .451 sizer. The size die is made from O1 and took way longer than I like. I made a few mistakes and took lots of time to make up for them.
The sizer punches were something I wanted to make for quite a while but had to figure out the setting to cut a 1/2-27 thread. Once I got that solved they are quick and easy. Might take 30 minutes each from a 5/8 rod of 1144.

In all a good day and I learned a bunch. The Star does take a while as the outside dimension is pretty critical and I spend some time making sure they are the right size and really smooth. Lapping the bore on them takes the longest of anything.

 

[smokeywolf]

For 30+ years, many of the people I worked with commented that I was slower than many when producing a part. But, I can't tell you how many times a part would be given to a "faster machinist" and within a day or two of the "faster machinist" finishing the part I would be handed the very same drawing. I'd say, "didn't so-and-so make this a couple of days ago?" They'd say, "yep!"

Keep in mind that quite often, working fast(er) only produces a level of finish and accuracy you didn't want, faster.

 

[Brad]

Yes! Making a .750 diameter section for a Star die quickly often leads to a .748 diameter section. Since this diameter is pretty critical, it forms the seal that prevents lube leakage, I want it right. I tell my techs at work that right is always faster than wrong.
I have been sneaking up on it and once I get within .005 or so I use a file the. Some emery cloth to get the final diameter. This also leaves a very smooth surface that slides in and out of the sizer well.
My time has no real monetary value when I'm do it this for myself. I certainly can see why a guy who makes these for money thinks of faster, easier ways of producing them. A tool post grinder would certainly speed up going the bore but those cost money so I need to wait till I decide I can afford one.

I now understand why people say the lathe was the cheap part, the tooling is what gets expensive. The look on my wife's face when I mentioned a new chuck might be 800-1000 dollars said it all.

 

[Rick]

With the cost of medicine you should be able to pay off the national debt.

 

[Brad]

With the cost of medicine you should be able to pay off the national debt.

Hey, that high cost is providing YOU with a forum free from begging for money.

 

[Ian]

Buckshot always said they ought to give away the lathes for free because they fleece you on all the tooling you need to make it work anyway, and the lathe itself creates a steady consumer of tooling for the life of the owner. Now, if you had a vertical MILL, you could just make all your own lathe tooling.........

 

[L1A1Rocker]

All I did yesterday was clean the lathe and thought about turning some more titanium. . .

Buckshot always said they ought to give away the lathes for free because they fleece you on all the tooling you need to make it work anyway, and the lathe itself creates a steady consumer of tooling for the life of the owner. Now, if you had a vertical MILL, you could just make all your own lathe tooling.........

Yep. We see lots of folks wanting to buy a lathe over on the silencer forum. Often they want to buy a cheap mini lathe and expect to turn Gr-5 Titanium and make the quietest silencer ever made. Most don't understand that you have to spend real coin on a decent lathe and will likely spend that much again just on tooling. Fortunately most will follow advice and buy used American Iron. Often with buying used, you get a lot of tooling thrown in. It's just unreal how much tooling you end up "needing".

 

[Brad]

I bought new Chinese. It was suggested as I wanted a lathe I knew was in good shape. I wanted a lathe, not a project. That advice came from both Buckshot and the Perfessor on CB.
I don't know what to look for in used machines and don't have a qualified person to go with me.
That said, I didn't buy a small bench top model either. Mine goes 1100 pounds and is large enough to do what I need. I bought based on max potential need, not minimum.

Now tooling, it is another story. I want a good chuck and understand it will cost me a grand or so. Quality costs money, key is identifying where that money met be spent and where costs can be cut.

What I am really learning is that experience is a huge factor. Only way to learn is to make chips. Lots of chips. Every day I learn something new.

 

[Pistolero]

Yep to all you said Brad. I may be a bit farther down that same road of learning, but not a whole lot.
One of my great advantages is having a good friend who has been a tool and die maker for 30+ years
and darned near does know it all. Love going over and getting a lesson, but have to be aware that he
is making his living out of his shop and time spent teaching me is money literally gone from his pocket,
well actually money that never makes it into his pocket, same thing in the end.

He has a gazillion tools and a REALLY, REALLY complete shop but has taken decades
saving and buying deals and of combing sales and eBay to put it together. He can literally
make anything you can think of if you have $60 per hour.

I had to literally chuckle out loud at the thread on that stupid Star top punch. Only a
machinist geek totally immersed in his "lathe world" would have selected 1/2-27, although
there is one alternate theory, that they didn't want folks without lathes to be able to make
up their own from bolts, thereby cutting them out of the market for extra punches.

My bet is that the guy never even thought about it. His lathe will cut 27 TPI, so why not
use it, completely oblivious to the fact that the rest of the world thinks that 20 TPI (UNF) or
maybe 28 TPI (UNEF) is normal and would work just fine, and be much easier to deal with.

 

[Brad]

It took me a bunch of searching to find the settings and hearing to get my lathe to cut 27 TPI. I was downright giddy when I tried it and it worked.
I can see making a punch for every die now.

Only downside is needing to find a far better storage solution. Far easier to store when it is 6 dies and 3 punches than when it becomes 15 dies and a dozen punches.

 

[Ian]

Go to the hardware store and pick up a couple of K-V (or whatever brand) 23" full-extension drawer slides. Make a yoke out of 3/4" plywood or 1x3 pine, or even 2x4s to support the slides. Basically make a U-shape, two sides for the tracks and a cross piece for the back for a spacer. Attach the slides to the side pieces and attach the yoke under your bench being careful that the front and back of the slides are perfectly parallel. Make a drawer panel out of plywood and attach to the inner part of the slides. make a drawer front if desired and attach it to the front part of the drawer panel. Drill the panel for your dies. Pretty much like Ben did it in his die storage thread.

 

[Brad]

That is sorta what I'm leaning towards. I just need to be careful, I have little knee hole space. Most of my bench is on cabinets.
I may take a drawer in a cabinet and add a drilled wood block for the dies.

 

[Ian]

Oh, roger that on knee space. I forgot that your loading room is outfitted with cabinets rather than benches that are open underneath. Mine has plenty of benches, but I built most of them chair-height and have no room underneath. BUT, that gives me more usable space for shallow shelves on the back side the bench tops, and I store my dies in boxes on those shelves right behind the sizers.

 

[Pistolero]

25 dies in a plastic 12 ga shotshell box for $3.50, takes up about 4.5" by 4.5" by 3" tall.
Make an "upstairs" of 3/8 plywood to fit inside, put top punches in holes in the plywood.

Bill