Anyone loading the 357 Sig

[Hawk]

I have a LE friend that said he would bring me some brass from a training exercise. I thought I was going to get 9mm brass.

Apparently, his SWAT team is using 357 Sig and he brought me 1600 rounds of Speer once fired brass!

I'm thinking about getting a LWD conversion barrel for my Glock Model 22 or 27 and playing with this.

Lyman's reloading manual says the Sig has a throat too short for any of it's molds.

I've got a MiHec 125 gr. mold that I want to try, but wanted to get some input from some of you that may have already tried this.

Any help/comments would be appreciated.

 

[Shotman]

they are pain to load. i did mess with it but bullet design is very important . you will need a factor crimp die and then good luck.
my problem with a sig is 356 cast is too small and 357 some brass wont chamber . the speer brass is very soft and you will get many crushed cases that have to be redone in a 40 die .
so good luck

 

[freebullet]

Nope but, I probably have a bag of brass for it.

 

[358156 hp]

I reload for a P320 in 357 SIG. I will be casting for it as soon as I finish up with my big 9mm loadfest. I will be using powder coated bullets, so I don't have to worry about bullet seating depth vs. grease groove position. I understand Lymans concerns, but we have ways around most roadblocks.

 

[Hawk]

358156 HP
Did you ever get to play with this and if so, I am very interested in a report.

 

[358156 hp]

I still have it, and shoot primarily cast in it. Since I powder coat my bullets I've taken to water dropping them straight out of the PC oven. I haven't attempted to check the hardness, but I'm satisfied with the performance of my bullets for both the SIG and 9mm when done this way. My primary 9mm bullet has been an NOE 357-135-RF, I believe this is a Ranch Dog design. It has worked well in both calibers, at least until my new M&P 9mm Compact came along. It does not appreciate the big meplat of this design at all. I have other bullet designs that should work for it, and the bottleneck 357 SIG cases feed really well with it.

I am loading my 357 cases at full power using data for 140 gr jacketed bullets since my 135 gr cast are actually right around 142-143 gr, ready to load. There is also some really limited loading data for 147 Lyman cast in 357, and I'll get around to working up data for 358156 in it as well. It loaded without the gascheck the 358156 has a profile similar to the afore mentioned Lyman 147 gr cast design and feeds perfectly in every 9mm I've tried it in so far. You are on your own as far as loading data goes however, but in the 357 SIG you should be able to develop some loading data for it even with a gascheck. I leave gaschecks off for 9mm because of the inner case taper.

I now have 4 cavity Lyman moulds for 356637 (147 gr) and 356402 (120 gr) that I have yet to cast with too, so there's plenty to work with. One favorite powder for me has been IMR (now Hodgdon) 800X, AA#7, Unique, and I have a couple of pounds of WSF that should do nicely as well. I really like the caliber and feel it has been dismissed too quickly as being only slightly better than 9mm +P. My experiences lead me to believe that the velocity difference can be quite an advantage with the correct bullets. I have also found that bullet manufacturers seem to publish reloading data for 357 SIG that throttles it back to work with their optimal performance envelope for 9mm bullet design, Hornady seems to be the worst offender here.

With bullets like Speers 125 gr "Gold Dot" bullet, specifically designed for the SIG, or even proper hard cast bullets the SIG is capable of higher performance than it has been given credit for. Another experiment I have planned is to try swaging down 125 & 140 gr jacketed 357 magnum bullets to .356-.357 and testing them. FWIW, Speer 125 gr SIG bullet appears to be the same bullet as their 357 mag. bullet, but without a cannelure. It is not even close to their 124 gr 9mm design.

 

[Hawk]

Thanks for the update.
This has been on my back burner for a while.
Have had so many other things going on since my wife retired.
I like her being around, but she keeps me busy!

 

[fiver]

as I remember the sig was designed around a 145ish truncated cone style bullet that was clipping along pretty good.
the 125gr factory loading was neck and neck with the 125gr 357 mag loads in the 90's.
I semi sorta paid attention since Dad bought one back then and I figured I would be loading for it.
I don't think he ever fired a full box of ammo through his and he never brought up needing any.

apparently most everyone else dropped the idea too, but I could see where the round ballisticly would have some appeal.

 

[Hawk]

I've got a friend that is on a local SWAT team and he says a lot of the local Dallas- Fort Worth area SWAT teams use this round. That's who gave me the brass. It was from a training exercise.
You don't see too much advertising for it and I don't know why.
A Glock full size pistol with 15 rounds of the equivalent of .357 Mag, 125 gr. rounds would seem to be pretty handy.
My dilemma is, I'm sort of a SHTF kinda guy. I hate to have a bunch of resources tied up in loaded rounds and only one barrel that shoots them when all the other defensive guns are 9MM, .38 SPL, .357 Mag and 40 S&W.

 

[358156 hp]

It's probably Speer brass if it came from an LEO. Speers primer flash holes are tiny, and lots of decapping pins stick in them. I decap mine with an RCBS decapping die the first time around and then run my normal flash hole uniformer/ deburring tool through it.

 

[Hawk]

Yes, it is Speer.

 

[358156 hp]

Most 357 SIG duty ammo seems to be from Speer. I bought a thousand or so primed Speer cases a couple of years back that came from pulled LE ammo.

 

[CZ93X62]

The 357 SIG's popularity seems strongest in the Southwest, Texas and New Mexico especially. The 125 grain bullets do keep right up with those from the 357 Magnum revolvers, specifically the Federal #357B loading that claims 1440 FPS. In my 4" 686, these loads clock 1425 FPS, and in the 6" 586 they approach 1500 FPS--but not quite, about 1480-1485 FPS mean velocities. The Ruger BisHawk 357 x 7.5" achieves 1500 FPS and a few more.

I have only shot 357 SIG loads from 4.4" barrels, in a SIG P-226 and a Glock 22--Speer 125 grain bullets that ran 1425 to 1450 FPS. Both pistols were OEM 40 S&Ws to which 357 SIG aftermarket barrels were swapped in. I like VERY MUCH the ability to cart around 14-15 357 Magnum-level loads before the slide locks back, but the design elements of the cartridge bother me a bit.

The cartridge is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth. I guess that works OK, but the shoulder seems like a better idea/more positive reference point. I am sure that die settings can adjust to this spec as needed. What concerns me is that most seating dies incorporate a taper-crimping feature as an adjunct to this case-mouth-headspacing regimen. Sorry, Charlie--I have fought with 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25/30 Luger attitude issues concerning bullets being secured in dinky necks--and a roll-crimp is best to keep things anchored as the cartridge makes its way from magazine box to chamber in the slam-bam fashion that autopistols are known for. So--I will sit out the 357 SIG bit until/unless a diemaker can come up with seating and crimping that adheres to real-world usages. Maybe I am over-thinking things, too. Dunno. I would love to hear what reloaders have to say about telescoping bullets (if any) and other Things That Go BUMP In The Night with this little hot-rod.

 

[358156 hp]

LEE makes a rifle style collet crimping die for the 357 SIG. I heartily recommend their use. For that matter, I also have one for my 458 Socom. One drawback to the 357 SIG becomes evident when bullet weights start getting heavy. You can load about any 358 bullet in 357 SIG, even some rifle bullets, but you run out of powder room very quickly. A friend has a 357 Coonan, and I can hang with him respectably until we go over 130 grains of so. From that point on he can smoke me velocity-wise. However there are tradeoffs. The Coonan mags hold 7 shots. My P320 Compact holds 13. Big difference!