Arsenal Molds 30. Cal HVTH1

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
I recently got this mold

In the photo below, you see a trio of bullets- the HVTH is on the right. Long bearing surface, small lube grooves, meplat slightly larger than the XCB- bullet (in the middle). HVTH is an acronym for High Velocity, Target, Hunting.

I have a 4 cavity mold, that works very well. I have shot the bullets a couple of times, I started with water quenched bullets BHN27, and Viht N-110 powder; pan lubed with 666-1, tumble lube top coat; 19 grs worked well in my Howa .308. 27 grs Vectan TU-3000 also worked well with these conventionally lubed bullets.

I shoot from prone position at 100m. Front support on a bag. Rear support on an old gym sock filled with rice (really should get a better rear bag). The circles on the target monitor represent 1 MOA increments. With this set-up, my shooting skills and experience level with cast bullets (intermediate-ish), I consider 5- shot 100m groups better than 2 MOA «good», 1,5 MOA «very good» and sub-1,5MOA makes my day. Sub-MOA- groups I consider a fluke, until proven otherwise (still waiting for consistent sub- MOA load).

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Today, I tried powder coated bullets, BHN 14. Intermediate loads with Tu-3000 gave disappointing results (3 MOA). However, jacketed-level starting loads with Tu-5000 (quite similar to IMR4064) were interesting. I shot groups from 36- 38 grs. The hottest load gave 4 hits really close together, and one flier (un-called, but might be me anyway.... dont know). Will shoot this load some more, and try to push it a bit further.

Powder coating is still a bit fresh territory for me, but I must say it is a facinating tool to have in the box.
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Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Thank you! I have only limited experience with this bullet. But it seems relatively easy to work with. Thought I could keep track of my progress with the load development in this thread.
 

Ian

Notorious member
We'd love to see it. I've had my eye on that hvth bullet for a while as a candidate for PC experimentation. So far I've had good luck using very soft alloy with powder coat, so don't think you have to use water-quenched Buckminsterfullerine as an alloy for success. 12-14 bhn did well to 2900 fps in the 5.56 (maxed out pressure with the heavy bullets without seeing groups deteriorate) and .30-caliber has worked in a couple of rifles as soft as 10.4 bhn and nearly 2400fps. 14 bhn and powder coated with the 4064 certainly looks like it deserves more investigation.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Ian!
I have two alloys in use currently. Nuclear medicine lead with 2% tin (measuring bhn 14 with my newly aquired Lee hardness tester). This alloy is quite useful for typical mid- and low intensity loads. In the other pot, I have added 2% antimon, which gives a seemingly disproportionate increase in air-cooled BHN to 18, and water quenches to 27. I use this for conventionally lubed bullets where circumstances call for harder alloy. My supply of antimonial lead is limited at the moment, one of my motivations to try PC. Before I started PC, I have read what I have found on the subject, including your many excellent posts :)
For now, I use the BHN14 alloy for powder coated bullets. And so far it seems to work well.

For my next range trip, I plan to shoot some more tu-5000 loads, try some imr 4064 and maybe viht n-150. Will keep you posted.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
When I recently started powder coating, I quickly discovered the challenge of moving a tray of neatly balanced bullets into the oven.... The bake-in-a-pile method has not worked for me either. My solution was to glue a bunch of cardboard plates together (the massive kind, without air channels), make 10mm holes with a punch. A string/loop on either side, they must be balanced so you can lift it, holding the knots, without any wobbling (fix the string with a little glue).

I place the cardboard «matrix» on the baking tray. Drop the powdered bullets into the holes. Place the tray halfway into the oven, carefully remove the cardboard and insert tray fully into the oven. I am sure there are more clever ways of doing this, but it works for me at least.8689
 
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Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Shot some more groups today, Vectan TU-5000 38-40grs, imr4064 38-40 grs, Vihn N-150 39-41 grs. Chronoed a few loads (single shots only). The Vectan loads were disappointing. The 4064 and N150 loads were all quite good; i shot with my moderator fitted, and had some trouble with mirage (many loads to test, limited time). My barrel is 18,5in, so limited potential when it comes to velocity.
Some chrono data:
Vec Tu-5000 38grs: 2030 fps
Vec Tu- 5000 39 grs 2100 fps
IMR4064, 39 grs 2285 fps
IMR 4064 40 grs 2275 fps
N150, 40 grs 2220 fps

The two best 5-shot groups today were imr4064/38grs (1,3MOA) and N150/41grs (1,5 MOA). The rest of the 4064/n150- groups typically had a flier opening to 2 MOA; some called fliers, some disturbing mirage from the moderator. Will try to push the N150 a bit further. No bug holes yet, but making progress.87388739
 

Ian

Notorious member
18.5" .308 Winchester? Is a "moderator" what we call a silencer or suppressor here in the US? You're doing great especially considering those limitations. Nice round groups count for a lot.

The most recent trials with my 18" suppressed LR-308 produced a 5/8" five-shot group without the suppressor-mounted chronograph and a 1-1/4" group with it mounted, will be doing more tests of that same load to make certain it isn't a freak thing. The reason that seems particularly relevant to your thread is similar barrel lengths, big "can" on the muzzle, and powder coated spitzers. I had been using IMR 4320 for most of my .308 shooting because I have a lot of it on hand, but after looking at muzzle pressure levels with Quickload I went against my gut instinct and tried Reloder 7. It was giving me 2464 fps average and 9.3 SD for five shots at 36.0 grains in Remington brass. All three of the powders you were using are pretty slow for the cartridge under most any circumstances and with a short barrel will have quite a lot of muzzle pressure and excess heat in the can. I say all this to mention that a faster powder may be to your advantage in this rifle. Accurate 2200 or TU-2000 may be worth a try.

Typically we WANT slower powders with cast bullets due to high loading density and gentle launch due to relatively slow initial burn rates, but the powder coating seems to make the gentle launch less important, particularly with a good, self-aligning bullet such as what you are using.

Heat mirage is not fun to shoot through. To me it's worse than mirage downrange because the scale is much larger. Five rounds with Reloder 7 is about all I get before it's time to let it cool off for a few minutes, but with 4320 I get mirage after just three shots and it takes much longer to cool.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your feedback!
Yes, by «moderator» I mean silencer, sorry (the brits call them «moderators», which by the way is a word that sounds much less scary to legislators). In Norway, silencers are sold with no licence/regulation of any kind. My 10 year old daughter could walk into a gun shop and buy one. The one I use on my Howa .308 is a bit heavy (1 ibs), but very rugged and quite afforable. I have silencers on all my hunting rifles/barrels.

I have read (and recently re-read) your thread on HV PC shooting, lots of useful information and great results!

The powders used this time (N-150, IMR4064, TU-5000) is what I typically use with jacketed bullets (150-185 grs) in the .308, with good results. I have tried a few loads with TU-3000 (3031- territory) with PC HVTH1, but accuracy has been dissapointing so far. I have a few other powders that I will try, eventually (H322, Benchmark, N120, imr4198). Reducing the mirage- problem would be great.

By the way, I am using epoxy- based coat. I also have a polyester- based coat, but the epoxy- based coat works better for me. This seems to go against the experience of others. I cleaned the gun upon returning from the range, after 50 nearly full-power PC shots. It required almost no cleaning, the third patch was clean- amazing. Found no trace of coat fouling.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Epoxy, interesting! Its really good that we're using different things and making them work. The reason I have kept using Polyester tgic powder is because I started out with it and it just keeps working, same reason I do a lot of things. I set out to test and find failure points and haven't had to change yet. Looks like you are finding the same thing with the epoxy which is outstanding!

The faster powder wont solve your heat problem but will help a little. Reduction in muzzle pressure will reduce the moderator boost somewhat and may settle down the groups a little, just something to think about.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Tried the HVTH in my Røssler titan alpha, .30-06. This is a lightweight hunting rifle. Pan lubed bullets, Hornady GC, tumble lube top coat. Shot from prone, with support on a bag. Tried a couple of 5-shot groups with Viht N110, 19- 20 grs. All groups were OK, about 1,5 MOA or slightly better. It might be possible to get quite good accuracy with this combination, I think.
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Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Today, I shot some checkless PC HVTH-1, for the first time. I shot them in my Schultz & Larsen 30-06. N110, 19-20grs, sized .309, 0.02in jump, 0.001in neck tension, left the flare. Shot from prone position at 100m, with support on a bag.
They shot fine! Clean case necks. I will certainly shoot more with checkless PC- bullets. This group is a tad over 1MOA

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popper

Well-Known Member
The only mould I have that isn't 'stepped' on the ogive is the RD. I find that sizing in pushthru - is 'lopsided'. With mould that has a step, the step centers in the die and no 'lopsided'. The long taper before the drive band has to align to the sizer, tilting if not just right. I don't use lube groves but displacement grooves. Latest BO 145gr mould doesn't have any, just the GC shank space. Works fine. Ref. #34 in BO thread, 10" AR pistol bipod on front and me driving the back. It's 17gr H110 (not 19 as written - and the non-groupd are different loads), near max. I also reduced the GC shank dia a few thous. so Hornady GC fit by hand. Age is getting to my shooting.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
The HVTH1- bullet does not seem to have attracted much attention, I rarely see reports about it. I think many people are missing out! It has worked very well for me, in a few different rifles. I have not tested it in a rifle, that did not like it. I think the nose design is pretty adaptive.

It does, however, seem a particularily good fit in my S&L m97DL 30-06 bolt gun. When I push the bullet into the throat, I get scuff marks from both the lands, and the «ball seat». Which probably means the nose is well supported during launch.

THe last couple of range trips, I have shot several groups with this bullet and the S&L rifle, using 19- 19,5grs N110. Lubed bullets, .310. Collet neck sized brass (Norma range pick-ups), win LRP, expanded to 1 thou neck tension, left the flare. It keeps shooting 1 MOA 5- shot groups at 100m very consistently. The group in the photo was 25mm c-c, which is just sub-MOA.

We have had many interesting discussions regarding bullet design, alloy and fit on this forum. This bullet has very little «relief grooves», and will have to increase its length to comply to the dimensional limitations of the barrel. Which makes me think it would benefit from a tin- rich alloy. I have mixed a pot of nuke lead/4% tin, and cast a few bullets. First, I will descend the powder burn chart and then explore the tin-rich bullets at higher velocities, where these details matter more.

The current N110- load is so good, I doubt I can shoot much better with this hunting rifle with my current set-up and skill.
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Ian

Notorious member
I like to go the other direction with tin when using a bullet design that requires some drawing to get through the barrel, but all my experience with that sort of thing was from the time before any of us were painting our rifle bullets. Tin soes some other things for us which may, or may not, prive to be of benefit with this bullet design The only way to know is to try it and see.....

The HVTH design certainly is proving its merit in your '06 despite not having much in the way of displacement grooves. You have my attention!
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Another characteristic of this bullet, is the surprisingly small lube capacity. I have had some indications, my current lube might give best accuracy with very small amounts of lube. I’ll have to design a test to check this, maybe using the XCB- which gives a lot of options regarding amount of lube.

I don’t know if my reasoning concerning alloy/fit/design is correct, but I’ll give it a shot and report back :)
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Color me impressed!!!

Of all the molds I have And the fact ghat I 98% only powder coat.... I still dont own a slick side mold.

CW