Blasphemy ...... Butchered 1917 Smith

[RBHarter]

Yes it's as bad as it sounds ......... The good news that it was just another old Smith in a.bucket of surplus ......That's what I'm telling myself anyway . I guess someone wanted a Jerry McKilnik 45 ACP and used a perfectly good April ,1918 produced 1917 that was just laying around.
The picture is being uncooperative this morning ......
They added a target type adjustable rear sight and hacked the bbl off right at the front of the ejector lug for 3 3/16" bbl sort of snubby "N" frame . The chambers are chamfered , I hope not too far . The grip was some god awful kit grip for a coil spring gun I guess . Even with ACPs I could see banged up knuckles from the trigger guard . In the spirit of instant gratification I immediately Hogued it , much better . The chambers are more generous than the September sister with the all matching numbers and probably untouched .
I bought it for the action and the base anyway . It occurred to me last night as I pretended to sleep well that the 4" minimum bbl length for a hunting pistol isn't required most other places . Additionally the " case length of at least that of the Remington 44 Magnum " also isn't called for either .
The intent was to have a mouth headspace or half moon clip 45 Colts double action but I think this may be the perfect opportunity for a not quite so incorrect 45 Schofield/S&W . Naturally hot rodding is out of the question but the search will continue for a replacement cylinder that can be headspaced for Colts/Schofield and turned for full moons ,because I have about 50 . AR is in the mix and I have a secret source for more of that brass . Of course a little more bbl wouldn't hurt my feelings and there's somebody out there somewhere with a junk box full of parts .

 

[RicinYakima]

An alternative is to consider making wildcat 45 rimless. I have seen 45 ACP cylinder bored out for 45 Colt, before the guy realized they wouldn't headspace. My friend bought the gun and made brass from 300 Savage cases and used 1/2 moon clips for headspace. He just seated the bullets deep enough for the cylinder to turn and it shot just fine. As a reloader you control pressure, so it is a good work around until you find a new cylinder. (Or just send it to me to play with!) Best wishes, Ric

 

[fiver]

I would say 45 win mag.
but that could end bad in the future.
45 schofield might be the better option for your cylinder.
let them H/S off the case mouth and poke out that little bit.

 

[RBHarter]

I've mulled over the all of the 45s from GAP to 454 , real and theoretical safety margins . There are a few bugs in this gun . There's a shim kit in its future . The accuracy doesn't seem to be too bad. I shot some 45-200s and some commercial 230 RN . About 3ft high at 25yd and 2' at 50 .
The cylinder knocked whatever shimming was in the cylinder loose or possibly it had the old sawdust in the transmission bit done .

 

[quicksylver]

God Bless you...it is still alive...

Still can't quite figure out why people convert Colts to turn in the opposite direction...to be more inline with the Coriolis effect?

 

[RBHarter]

I finally got a picture small enough for all the forums !

 

[fiver]

I can't say I disagree with the concept, or the follow through.
if there is a way to get it back to a moon clip 45 acp and tighten everything down.
that is what I would do.
the wear even indicates it was built for a purpose, and used as such.

I do remember this being a pretty common thing to do with these revolvers.
they gave you a gun about the size of the 38 colt detectives and the punch of the 45.
I would almost bet it was carried loaded with hand loaded 45 AR cases and backed up with moon clips.

 

[RBHarter]

That is the basic plan for now . I'll have to deepen the notch or raise the blade to get it on paper . Probably both to run the 454424 or 452-255 . I do have a 45-200 also but it shot way high also ....

If I have it posted enough places maybe the parts will crawl out of a 20 box on the back of bench some where .

 

[fiver]

I bet that front sight had a gold [brass] bead on top of it at one time.
you might/should be able to epoxy a piece of brass rod up there to get started with.

 

[358156 hp]

Tom has a butchered 1917 too. His had the butt ground down to accept a RB K frame grip, and the old warhorse wears a Pachmayr compact grip, the barrel was replaced (with the wrong one!) with a three inch barrel that doesn't have the proper lug for front lockup. We're trying to source a better barrel for it, and are pondering our options on the grip frame issue.

Don't be too hard on people who have modified them, we need to remember that 1917s used to be more common than dirt, and that they were only worth about $20.00 until the latest crazes made them "classic". So at one time they were just a cheap blaster, kind of like Model 10s. Gun prices are totally crazy anymore.

 

[RBHarter]

That is along my lines of thinking . I bought a bucket of stuff a while back and have some assorted brass stock .

More research has turned up some interesting tidbits nearly all the N frame barrels will work with a little contour work . Unfortunately AR does have a 4" rule . I read that a 357 N frame cylinder had been used for a Colts conversion. That was 3rd hand net lore however.

 

[RBHarter]

As above I console myself knowing that they were once surplus barrel guns .
We wouldn't chop 1916 DWM Gew 98 matching numbers or an 03A3 of the same even if it were a 7/45 to build "my 3rd nephews cousins first deer rifle" , unless it was prechopped.

This one has parts of several so it's less bad .

 

[RBHarter]

So I've ordered a shim kit , a $16 package of .002 washers , for it to shim the cylinder off the bbl extension and restore the head space . Funny how it gets huge when the cylinder slides up against the bbl .
I will have enough to shims to lock the cases against the rear of the frame , my best measures tend to suggest that splitting the .011 cylinder gap with an Auto Rim case touching the frame should do the trick , maybe 8/3 I think 6/5 will be too much space on the breach end .
That will fix the end shake . Then I can work on the sights .

 

[9.3X62AL]

I have an inherited Trapdoor Springfield in the gun safe that I take out and brain-storm about. 2-3 times a year, out it comes and I pore over it, get frustrated, and put it back in the safe. One of these days.......

I really miss having a 45 ACP/AR revolver to play with. One of those S&W Performance Center critters would fill the bill nicely, but getting them into CA is kabuki theater that makes the effort upside-down in terms of net gain. Which is the whole object of the CA laws. End of rant.