Bullet Comparison Website, Samples Wanted.

[Bazoo]

I am compiling an inventory of cast bullets for a website I'm working on. It will offer measurements, weight, and picture comparison of bullets to help with load development and also just as a fun reference. Also I will include variation samples and info when I have them. My site will be free for all, and will be useful for load development or comparison of cast bullets.


I am asking for bullet samples of any and all calibers to help me compile this data. I need the bullets to be presented to me with as much information as possible. This includes, but is not limited to, bullet number and name, any markings on the mould, Approximate or exact date year of mould if known, alloy. I need these samples to be in the raw. That means not lubed or sized or powder coated. I am glad to accept a sample size of 1 or up to as many as you wish to send. I want variations, so if you have a couple 429421 moulds that cast differently, please include both, with as many of these details as possible. Each needs to be separated in a baggy or envelope to keep from being damaged in transit and storage. I want both home cast and commercial cast samples. For commercial cast bullets, obviously I can't get them raw so I'll accept what I can get, but I need the info associated with them such as model and make. Also, if no detailed info is there, but you just have the mould number or make or any info, that is also accepted, and will be used as well. Just write a note with the info you DO have.

I am also including a top punch reference too where I can find that info.

If you'd like to help, please message me and I will provide my shipping address for samples.

Thank you for your help in this endeavor. I will link to the website and data when it becomes available.

 

[Bazoo]

Bullets I have examples of so far are

RCBS 44-250-K (x2)
RCBS 44-245-SWC
RCBS 44-240-SWC
RCBS 38-150-SWC
RCBS 45-201-SWC
RCBS 45-200-SWC
RCBS 44-200-FN
RCBS 32-170-FN
RCBS 44-250-SWC

Lyman 319295
Lyman 311284
Lyman 429421 Round groove
Lyman 31141
Lyman 358429
Lyman 321297
Lyman 358156

Lee TLC324-170-RF Ranchdog
Lee C432-265-RF Ranchdog
Lee 429-240-2R
Lee 429-200-RF
Lee TL430-240-SWC
Lee C358-158-SWC
Lee 311-93-1R
Lee 356-102-1R

MP 432-256 (H&G 503)

 

[Mitty38]

What about alloy??.?
Your info is going to be useless without a consistent alloy. lyman#2, coww, 20%tin, super hard etc.
They all yield different weights and measurements from the same mould. With out knowledge of alloy used, all the bullets you have so far, and will obtain, will yield inaccurate comparisons.

 

[fiver]

most of your commercial bullets are made in Magma Engineering molds, they specify 2/6/92 alloy, which is of course what most commercial outfits use. [except Hawk they used nothing but 20-1]
some of the smaller outfits will get a lyman, rcbs, mihec, etc. mold and fit it to their machine, or simply cast them by hand.

 

[Bazoo]

I want alloy specified for samples, but they don't have to be all the same alloy. My comparison is mainly for reference to used case volume so you can extrapolate data when using bullets for which there is no data. But if I get the same bullets from various alloys i'll definitely compare those for weight and diameter. I am going to make bullet comparison with pictures of each bullet so that you can look at them and say, yep, that one has a shorter nose, or whatever. I may get into offering BC and other info too.

Weight can be normalized through estimation if desired provided one knows the alloy of a bullet and how to ask the computer to do the math. I'm more interested in weight variations of the same mould, like all of Lyman's variations of the 429421, than I am of an individual sample.

I actually came up with the idea when I was extrapolating data for a Lee 358-140-SWC for 357 magnum loads. I was able to find a bullet that matched its used case volume in the RCBS 38-140-swc.

 

[Bazoo]

most of your commercial bullets are made in Magma Engineering molds, they specify 2/6/92 alloy, which is of course what most commercial outfits use. [except Hawk they used nothing but 20-1]
some of the smaller outfits will get a lyman, rcbs, mihec, etc. mold and fit it to their machine, or simply cast them by hand.

I very much want samples of all of those offerings so data can be easier extrapolated from them.

I have a friend that is just getting into reloading and he asked me, paraphrase, why there isn't data for all these bullets he gets at various casting outfits. I explained its because they sell bullets but they don't have the time or money to test them and compile data like Lyman.

 

[richhodg66]

Interesting endeavor. Pretty sure I can provide a few unusual ones, I'll look around and see what I can do.

 

[JonB]

Since this is primarily to help with load development, are you wanting samples of only "production" molds?
what about Group buy molds?
or custom molds?
or very early "rare" molds?

 

[Bazoo]

Its a passion that has spilled over into an endeavor. It will be an amazing resource for the cast bullet enthusiast when I get it up.

I want the rare or less common ones too. Because, when someone has one second hand, it may benefit them.

 

[JonB]

I hope you realize, if a major portion of the "regulars" here participate, you could end up with a couple thousand samples.

 

[Bazoo]

I hope you realize, if a major portion of the "regulars" here participate, you could end up with a couple thousand samples.

I do realize that. I am working on the spreadsheets currently. I already have about 200 Bullets lined up that are going to be added to the database. It's a heck of a lot of fun so far.

 

[richhodg66]

I know I have several molds which are old and discontinued. I'm sure I'm not unusual in this group in that regard.

 

[richhodg66]

I really like your idea, Bazoo. This is the kind of thing a site like this should be doing why I switched over to here.

 

[RBHarter]

I can't imagine......... It's raken a few minutes for the concept to break out of the simple request and register in logistics .
NOE has a library of their offerings and the current listings run from 22 to to 50 cal with 15 or so choices per cal that's probably 300+ . Accurate probably has very nearly 1000 and doesn't even do much under 30 cal . Today you can probably get 3-4 versions of the HG68 at Midway with probably 10 in ready production.......
Then there's the Lyman musical lube grooves on things like the 454424 and the sister 424454 that not only did round and square but 1-2 , deep and shallow . I'm sure there are versions that have generous crimp grooves that can be lube grooves or lube grooves more often used as crimp grooves ........

Fascinating for sure but it makes my brain hurt just mulling over what's passed my way .....

 

[Bazoo]

Yeah, I realize its a huge endeavor. But it also isn't going to be done in a day. Cast bullets and reloading has been my passion for a long time, so I already spend a pretty fair amount of time just researching it. I expect to enter data on bullets for quite some time too. I don't know how many I can do in my spare time after work, but I'd guess a couple hundred each day if I put to it. Not counting dealing with taking and entering the pictures. But still, the way we are building it, we will be able to continue to add into the database after the site is operational.

It's a bigger project than I had envisioned when I started. The start was really my own need too use Lyman and RCBS data to extrapolate for Lee moulds. Then I thought, heck, might as well add others. Then I seen my buddy's need because he was buying commercial bullets and had no reference as to what they might correspond with. So I spend several hours helping him get his loads sorted out.

I talked to a company yesterday that said they are inundated with requests for all the info for their bullets; BC, measurements, used case volume, data. So the need is not just with home cast bullets, but commercial as well. So my database is now growing to include more details.

 

[Bazoo]

I really like your idea, Bazoo. This is the kind of thing a site like this should be doing why I switched over to here.

I haven't switched completely to here, but I do like the atmosphere here. Other sites have their good points. I mostly talk over on the other cast bullet site and on thehighroad. I have requests for samples there too. I am on others, but I don't talk on those as much. I don't talk really that much here, but because there is a lot of the members that have crossed over I feel at home.

I have read on this site a fair amount doing the research I normally do, so I joined a while back....then I forgot my password. After that, I wrote it down in a real book.

Really, talking on forums is what lead me to do this database. I met a guy on the castboolit forum and was teaching him what I could, and one thing lead to another.

 

[Snakeoil]

I'm reluctant to type this. But will do so and start out by saying that I respect your commitment to carry out what appears to be a truly labor intensive task that could almost become endless. I don't think I'd have the patience to do something like this, so my hat is off to you. And my goal here is not to pee on your cupcake, but suspect that I'm about to.

I struggle with the value of what you are going to do. The key factor in understanding how a bullet and powder charge will react in a chamber is based upon 3 basic things:

1. Bullet weight
2. Bullet diameter
3. Loaded case volume

Beyond those, and #3 is really not a bullet characteristic, but a loaded cartridge charactertistic, the rest are rifle, powder and primer variables.

The number of driving bands, the shape of the nose and all the stuff that go into determining a BC are all kind of useless because the BC changes with the velocity. BC numbers are always qualified that they are an estimate. Picking a bullet is, IMHO more basic like a spitzer will buck the wind better, but might deform for my uses. A FN is required in my levergun. A RN/bore rider will probably be better in my gun than a TC cone design. And those choices can be made with pictures. Knowing the ogive dimension or the meplat size of a vintage design might be of interest to some. But I suspect that all the vintage designs have been shot enough that if they work well or not will be commonly known.

Molds are subject to tolerance. Others have already mentioned the alloy type will affect the diameter of the bullet. I just took one of my proven rifle loads and varied the bullet diameter up and down and a few thousandths in diameter, which is all we should be talking for any bullet, and it resulted in very small changes to MV and chamber pressure. And you'll never truly know what your bullet size will be until it drops out of the mold, and what the MV will be until you fire it over a chrono. And, if it drops big, you'll be sizing it down.

All the mold makers publish the diameter and weight of their bullets so that is available. The machine shop makers like NOE publish drawings of their bullets with all the info you would ever want. They all also publish photos of the bullets that their molds produce. And for the old stuff, there are compilations of Lyman molds going back to the beginning when they were Ideal, and include pictures, diameters and weights. There is also a site dedicated to all the designs from H&G.

The only advantage of what you are doing is, the info will all be in one place. But, it will be out of date the minute that somebody comes up with a new bullet design. So, it will alway require updates.

From my perspective as a competitive cast bullet shooter, something that would have been of value to me before I did all the digging and searching on the web and now know where all info is located, would have been a single site that provided links to all the various mold makers and links to the varioius compliations of molds both old and new so I could go to one place and click a link to look at Lyman molds, another to look at Saeco, another to look at old Ideal molds, NOE molds, etc..

I wish you luck on your endeavor. But I guess I would ask the members here if this is something that they would really find to be useful and will provide info that is not already available to them.

Please don't take this as a sarcastic comment. I see this as writing a book about the variations in donut holes. It would take gobs of research and even travel to write such a book. But when it was done, would anyone read it?

If you think it is worth doing, then I wish you the best of luck and hope you get all the help and info you need to accomplish this daunting challenge. I just thought I'd give you my honest thoughts on the value of the end product. Please don't hate me for it.

 

[richhodg66]

I have marked as a favorite the bullet chart with diagrams. Nominal weights, etc. Of all the Ideal and Lyman bullet designs they ever made. Even if Bazoo's project was only like that but with as many designs as could be gathered up, I'd sure be interested.

Spring break next week. Gonna look through my stuff and see what I can contribute.

 

[Bazoo]

@Snakeoil I appreciate the comments. I don't disagree either.

I find myself using data or info from many sources. But my friend, that just started reloading, he doesn't want to spend 10 years becoming a full blown cast bullet nut like me, he does however want to know what LYMAN or RCBS moulds cross reference closely with the bullets he bought at the store. That is used case volume. He asked me, why isn't there data for them? I explained that the companies that make bullets often times don't have the ability or time to test them. So bullet substitution with similar bullets is the only way.

My buddy doesn't care about BC, and neither do I. But the more info I can gather and enter, the better my site will be.

What it will do is bring all the bullet designs together in one place. More than that, it will allow pictures that are all taken on the same focal plane to be compared. I for one, want to compare all the variants of the Keith bullet. I don't have a need for info or pics about 9mm bullets, but it's not complete without that info so I'll add that too I reckon.

I have inquired on several gun forums about various bullets. I recently acquired a Lee C358-158-SWC and I cannot find data or reference to bullets that use the same case volume. Everyone says well its just a copy of the Lyman 358156. It is not, as I have the latter as well for comparison. The Lee in fact seats a fair amount deeper. With my web app I'll be able to search 358 bullets by base to crimp measurement and see the ones that are comparable. Then I will be able to better work up loads.

I cannot find measurements for LEE bullets anywhere by the way.

I expect to make some money on it from ads, but not a huge amount. Really, it is a labor of love because I've seen the need myself. Once the data is in the app it will be there forever, and then all I have to do is add new bullets occasionally.

Looks like I'll be including a top punch cross reference too, as I'm able to gather that info. I from my own experience have figured out the LEE 309-150-F uses RCBS 541, for example. I wonder how many people use that bullet and ring the nose with something that don't fit.

 

[Bazoo]

I have marked as a favorite the bullet chart with diagrams. Nominal weights, etc. Of all the Ideal and Lyman bullet designs they ever made. Even if Bazoo's project was only like that but with as many designs as could be gathered up, I'd sure be interested.

Spring break next week. Gonna look through my stuff and see what I can contribute.

I appreciate the help on it.