Casting with Rotometals Lead Free alloy

[Ian]

Purely academic for me, Doc. Several others had struggled with the concept and reported dismal results due to brittleness, but after briefly researching the problem I came upon a possible solution, contacted Rotometals, and they whipped up a test batch and sent me some ingots gratis. What I found was the small antimony addition made the alloy just malleable enough to engrave and hold the rifling without issue (solved the problems inside the gun) and held the bullets together just enough to perform well on medium game without disintegrating on bones. Some concessions need to be made on bullet design such as using WFN or TC bullets on deer, but the alloy "expands" enough to meet the legal criterion. One could also cast cup point bullets to further impress the wardens, though in truth if the alloy is deformed very much it still fractures.

 

[Rockydoc]

Who woulda thunk, adding antimony to increase malleability.

 

[CZ93X62]

Bullet casting abounds in counter-intuitive elements. That 's what makes it such a fun pastime, don't ya know?

Specific gravity of pure lead is 11.2, jacketed bullets is about 10.9, Barnes copper alloy is about 8.6, the 87.25/12/.75 Condor Cuddler Alloy (hereinafter known as "CCA") is about 8.4.

Now that my health seems to be returning to good order, I will be plowing forward with my CCA casting effort. This thread really should be "stickied" for easier access.

 

[Edward R Southgate]

Bullet casting abounds in counter-intuitive elements. That 's what makes it such a fun pastime, don't ya know?

Specific gravity of pure lead is 11.2, jacketed bullets is about 10.9, Barnes copper alloy is about 8.6, the 87.25/12/.75 Condor Cuddler Alloy (hereinafter known as "CCA") is about 8.4.

Now that my health seems to be returning to good order, I will be plowing forward with my CCA casting effort. This thread really should be "stickied" for easier access.

Seconded .

 

[JonB]

How does a bullet cast with this compare weight wise to the same bullet cast in lead?

Sorry, I don't remember exactly. Might find it here somewhere: https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/lead-free-bullet-casting-alloy.5585/

Bi,Sn,and Sb are all about 75-80% the weight of Lead.

See post #78
Ian said, "On the bullet weight I was at 58 grains fully dressed for a bullet that is 68.4 grains from wheelweights."

 

[NavyDoc87]

I am interested if anybody has tried these in a ball mold? Illinois will be headed lead free in the soon future. I don't mind shooting lead for target but I am looking into hunting with my soon to be flintlock and would like to hunt with lead free ball in part to reduce risk of lead in the food though I know it minimal, I also don't the poor animal to suffer from lead poisoning should it survive the shot and I not be able to locate it through tracking. Looking at .530 balls. I have seen videos for lead ball being dropped into a bucket of water to cool them, could that work with this alloy?

 

[richhodg66]

I'd be concerned about a ball of tin or bismuth being too hard to load and obturate in a muzzle loader. Generally you want soft. And yes, dropping it from the mold into water will cool it quickly, why is that important?

 

[NavyDoc87]

I honestly don't know. I am new to this. That was what I have seen in a number videos making lead balls

 

[Brad]

I used to drop pure lead projectiles for my ML just to cool them faster. With no Sb there is no hardening so no reason not to.

With the lead free alloyI do t know how it would react? I also think the bismuth based alloy would be a bitch to load with a snug patch as it won’t engrave easily.

 

[KeithB]

Maybe the water drop for round balls is to keep them from deforming instead of the usual reason.

 

[358156 hp]

A .54 caliber may be easier to load with unleaded. It's kind of unique in that the ball diameters can be found in varying sizes from .530 up to (perhaps) .533, if memory serves me. So if you have a 54, you would need to slug your barrel first, then choose your ball diameters and patch thickness accordingly.

Edited to get the ball diameters correct.

 

[Brad]

I would use a .530 ball and a .015 patch

 

[KeithB]

I would measure the ball carefully, might not be the same size as a pure lead ball from the same mold. As least with a patched ball you can vary the patch thickness to accommodate the ball and bore diameter.

 

[Brad]

With the bullets likely being pretty hard I would worry about the patch cutting on firing. Generally not conducive to accuracy.

There is a reason ML projectiles are still cast from pure lead.

 

[Ian]

All I can say is the lead-free alloy casts large, runs about 19 BHN, and tends to break up if deformed much more than what it takes to engrave the rifling.

 

[RicinYakima]

Get a mould that is small, use a thick patch and don't worry about blow by. I use 80 grains of FFF in my flint lock and it works very well on deer.

 

[Brad]

As for worrying about lead poisoning it helps to understand a few things.
Ric, please correct me if any of this is wrong from an environmental chemist point of view.

Metallic lead is not absorbed well in the human gut. If you eat a piece of shot it will pass thru as is. Shot is an issue for birds as they deposit the shot in the gizzard where it grinds on pebbles and grit which breaks it down and let’s the surface constantly for metallic salts.
Lead salts and oxides are absorbed in the gut so this is a problem. Luckily we don’t have a gizzard.
As for lead bullets left in an animal- how many humans have had bullets, or fragments, left in the for decades? They didn’t die from lead poisoning as the bullet doesn’t dissolve in the body.

When carting the solid lead ingots don’t worry me at all. The lead dust and oxides are the problem. They are what we can absorb. This is where basic hygiene plays a role. I wash my hands well after casting and move on. Burns are my largest concern when casting.

 

[JonB]

Round ball and Patch:
While I do use near pure lead.
I've heard people using COWW alloy or harder.
I didn't think obturation was a thing with RB and BP?
The lubed Patch is like a combination jacket/gas check.
You just need to size the patch thickness to ball size for your particular barrel diameter.
Honestly, I think a person could safely and successfully shoot a steel ball bearing in a ML.

 

[JonB]

I'll add another thing,
If I were to start thinking about a Leadfree Round ball for ML for shooting a white tail, because MN likes to follow CA, when it comes to things like this. I'd start experimenting with casting round balls from zinc wheel weights (AKA: ZAMAK III)...I bet they'd shoot pretty good.

 

[JonB]

and even one more thing:
what about a plastic sabot...if the lubed cotton patch is not successful?