Comparison test of two 30-30 Win loads

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
I tested 2 loads that were the same except for the diameter of the bullet.

Ruger #1 30-30
NEI 173 GC without the gas check. (this is a clone of 31141 I think). Powder Coated Smoke's JD Green
7.2 gr Bullseye. OAL 2.53"
Comparing .3085" to .310". Muzzle velocity for each load was 1316 fps

Group size @ 100 yards
.3085" 2.5"
.310" 1.56"

I should now test the same .310" load changing only the addition of a gas check. [ Edit: see post #31 for this follow-up}

Visually the target was blurry, but everything is blurry to me right now. I don't think the scope is the problem. My eyes have been very dry for the last several months.
For comparison of loads purposes, my eyes were just as dry for one load as they were for the other so the test was still useful.

Besides a 1.56" @ 100 yd. group will hit a deer in the neck, blurry eyes or not. No gas check even!
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Fit! It's all about fit. IME, within limits of course, a fatter bullet almost always shoots better in many guns. By fatter, I mean as fat as will easily chamber. There are limits to that idea and some folks report at speeds far higher than I've reached (about 2300) a smaller diameter bullet works better.

Shoot 'em and see!
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Nice shooting!

You did a pound cast on this gun a few months ago, IIRC. What did you get for a groove depth measurement?

Josh
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Theoretical bore 308, groove 312. Bullet 308. It must expand to capture the groove. 3085 just has to expand more. Army has proved it should expand in the body first. Thus thinner jacket in the middle. Pressure on the cast base tends to expand it first. Not good.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Good results, @Rockydoc !
Keep us posted on your results with GC. With that load level, it wouldn’t surprise me if the accuracy potential is quite similar w/o gas checks.
Different bullet sizes give different possible cartridge lengths. The smaller bullet will usually have a longer jump. When testing for size preference, it can be useful to compare loads with similar bullet jump.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
It would be interesting to see what a much slower powder does once you hash out the GC question.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see what a much slower powder does once you hash out the GC question.
My intent was to find out what diameter bullet the gun likes, then work up loads for higher velocity for hunting. I will try RL 7 and H414, as well as 2400, all with Dacron filler. I think I will need harder (tougher) bullets for 1800+ speeds. I could be wrong, your thoughts, all, please.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
The groove diameter mic'd .3085" If the barrel groove dia, that one is tight, bore would be more like 305? You want to stuff the alloy into the grooves but accuracy is not improved if you cut the grooves into the alloy. Fist case is a flow of metal, second is a tear of metal. I ran some 185gr 0.311 through my Marlin (they are loose), GC similar to 041 and soft alloy (1% Sb & 1% Zn). 13 Rx7 or 9 unique worked OK, more like 1500 fps. Got expansion on hog carcass gut. I'd forget the dacron.
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
It would be interesting to see how sizing to .309” or .3095” would affect accuracy. Just a hair above your groove depth.

Having recently added PC to how I reload, some new sizing dies are in my future. I’m currently using the “old school” Lee push through sizing dies. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish that I had invested in the NOE bushing setup. Or, now the Lee Breech Lock sizing system is another option. At $25-$30 bucks delivered the Lee dies can get expensive, versus a $10 bushing. I’ve three different sizes I want to try, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. I want a .402”, a .312” and another .314” that would get sanded out to .316”.

Josh
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see how sizing to .309” or .3095” would affect accuracy. Just a hair above your groove depth.

Having recently added PC to how I reload, some new sizing dies are in my future. I’m currently using the “old school” Lee push through sizing dies. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish that I had invested in the NOE bushing setup. Or, now the Lee Breech Lock sizing system is another option. At $25-$30 bucks delivered the Lee dies can get expensive, versus a $10 bushing. I’ve three different sizes I want to try, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. I want a .402”, a .312” and another .314” that would get sanded out to .316”.

Josh
I have the NOE system after owning several Lee push throughs. If I were only going to have one to two, I like the Lees. But the NOE is more economical and included in the setup are the parts to size the nose only as well. Bushings are extra for about $9 each. Economical and versatile.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Powder-coated rifle bullets typically prefer to have the least amount of squishing possible done to them inside the gun, but they also need to be given room and be made the right shape to find the middle of the hole.

Any theory on why? Is it related to the ductility or lack thereof of the coating?
 

popper

Well-Known Member
You want to squeeze into the grooves, not cut. Cut looses strength. HiTek seems to be worse for me as it is a tad more brittle.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
My intent was to find out what diameter bullet the gun likes, then work up loads for higher velocity for hunting. I will try RL 7 and H414, as well as 2400, all with Dacron filler. I think I will need harder (tougher) bullets for 1800+ speeds. I could be wrong, your thoughts, all, please.

I think you may find that the diameter a given gun really likes changes, or at least can change, as pressure increases or powder charges change or when something else changes. I don't mean it's carved in stone, but sometimes what a gun likes at, say, 7 grs BE might not be the best at 16-2400 or 30-3031. I think usually fatter is better in general terms, but people with far greater knowledge than I have say running far higher pressures say it isn't always so. I have seen a simple alloy change or HT alter things a bunch. I have yet to see anything approaching groove diameter shoot better than something a couple thou over, but I've only been playing at this for 40 years and it took me 30 yrs to get a lot of the simple stuff down. But the sole way to know is to shoot them and see. Change one thing at a time and write it down! It's a lot of work, but at lest these days we can share it far more easily than 40 years ago. Happy shooting!
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
You want to squeeze into the grooves, not cut. Cut looses strength. HiTek seems to be worse for me as it is a tad more brittle.

I've never actually seen anything powder coated in the way of bullets. Is PC like a ceramic or more like a hard paint/plastic?