Conditioning a barrel for cast

[dale2242]

I have been casting since the 60s. Mostly for handguns.
I have cast 10s of thousands of handgun boolits and some for rifles.
I know the "experts" say to clean all of the copper fouling from the bore. I will be doing that as it seems to make sense.
I want to develop some cast loads in my rifles. The 218 Bee for now.
They say to shoot a number of cast loads to condition the bore before shooting groups.
Is this necessary? If so, how. many shots?
Is there a way to tell if the bore is conditioned to shoot groups?
Thanks, dale

 

[fiver]

some will say no, or just one.
but I have noticed it taking as many as 11 shots to get a decent coat of lube to the muzzle in some of the clean to bare steel rifles I have followed. [and as few as 7 in some others]
it might take a few more after that to make sure everything is laid down evenly and the powder fouling is mixed in thoroughly.
I know a lot of BR 22lr type shooters that would say at minimum 20 and as many as 50 shots.

 

[Rick]

I've never tested this nearly as thoroughly in rifles but I can say from experience in long range revolver with cast that if the bore is cleaned your carefully acquired sight settings for 50-100-150 and 200 meters will be way off. It will take around 50 shots (that's more than a full match) to return to normal sight settings at each distance. My revolvers didn't lead at all and lube & powder fouling in the bore was self limiting, i.e. never increased past that 50 round point with careful examining with a 25X bore scope. I would shoot all year, hundreds and hundreds of rounds without touching the bore. The cylinder, center pin and ratchet would begin getting gummy with lube after about 100 rounds so it got cleaned and lubed after each match.

Copper fouling? I have no idea, can't even remember the last jacketed bullet I put through a revolver.

 

[Ian]

After you get any heavy/crusty copper fouling out of it, take a cleaning patch with a smear of your favorite bullet lube on it and jog it through the bore a few times, followed by one dry patch straight through. Clean the chamber with a bore mop and go shooting.

 

[popper]

I shoot alternate jax & cast without any noticable results. I do shoot jax through a new barrel to smooth it.

 

[Bass Ackward]

Is there a way to tell if the bore is conditioned to shoot groups?
Thanks, dale

Doesn’t matter unless it does. Too many variables including the gun. I vote for what Ian said, then go pull the trigger & use your opinion what’s required for what / how you’re doin it. Smaller bores always drove me nuts in cold weather. Good luck.

 

[Intheshop]

Each of my bolt rigs have their own personalities.

My main area of concern is,first shot predictability. Then once I know where it's gonna hit,day in and day out,rain or shine,and how it holds up in the wind.....

Then move towards getting 3 shot groups to cling around the first,cold bore shot. Since more often than not,I'm shooting skinny sporter barrels..... if it'll cloverleaf 3,it's good to go as a hunting rig. If,the system will hold together for 5 or more shots,that's gravy. But these are pretty hotly loaded and not taking time between shots.... the barrels can get pretty dang hot.

I would use a heavier barrel if building a target rig with long strings of fire on the menu. But would still work with an eye on cold bore shots,feeling it is one "window" into barrel conditioning. Also,try to see how the rig behaves when changing velocities without any other major changes in the load.Meaning,keeping the same bullet/powder/lube combination and just changing the tune(powder levels,seating depths). Practice in the wind to see how the load/tune holds together.

Try different rests/bags..... I'm looking for the middle of a safe tune. It may give up a little in accuracy/precision to running a little more,or less velocity but if the load will perform off a mixed range of rests,to include field rests.... that's mo better for me than always having to use the heavy benchrest rest/bags. This is more than barrel conditioning but they overlap.... as do several key areas. You just gotta decide what's more important, and then go with what the barrel is trying to tell you? Good luck with your project.

 

[Bret4207]

Bass said it years back and brings the idea forward to this site- "It doesn't matter unless it does." Simple as that. Some guns you can shoot jacketed or cast and they seem to shoot the same groups no matter what. Other guns act like they have a severe allegic reaction to one, the other or both. IME, most guns to be used for cast need the barrel cleaned of jacket fouling down to bare metal. The downside to that is some barrels had all the pits and imperfections filled with copper for 75 years. Anyway, after it's clean you can either start shooting and let it season or do as Ian suggests and run a lubed patch through the bore to get it started, then shoot until is "settles down and acts right". With a 218 Bee I'd start in the 1200 fps range and see what see says. Is this a lever gun, bolt or SS?

 

[Brad]

Best way to remove copper in many cases is with shooting some cast. Gets rid of that copper wash really well.
I don’t have much trouble with jacketed fouling as I rarely shoot jacketed.

Like bass said, it only matters when it does. Just like lubes in cold weather, some guns have issues, some don’t. My 32-20 cares, 45-70 doesn’t.

 

[dale2242]

My 218 Bee is a Marlin M94CL.
This thing has a really slow twist
1-16 I think.
I had to push 225415s really hard to get them to group at all.
I am going to be working with 2325348
Hopefully this shorter lighter bullet will stabilize at a much lower velocitydale

 

[JSH]

I always found this subject interesting. It seems there are as many thoughts on cleaning as there are on casting.
I prefer to only shoot cast in certain rigs. My IHMSA rigs for the most part have all been CB shooters for the past 20+ years.
I did not go as far as Rick did. My procedure was pretty much, nylon brush, patch with Kroil, then a dry patch and I was done. This was for everything IHMSA related.
Both FA's 44 and 357, cylinder removed brushed and patched out everything wiped off and lubed. Bore, I got into the habit of patching, but no brushing.
Usually took my allowed five sighters to check sights as well as help settle the bore seasoning down.

Your 218 Bee with that twist, have a CZ Hornet with the same. It would not shoot the 225415 worth a crap. I may have to invest in a new mold if I want to shoot CB's in this rig.
Some of Calfees thoughts and experiences I take into consideration with these smaller calibers as far as lube.
I would clean of all jacketed myself. Then at least patch between long strings of no firings.

 

[fiver]

I guess since we are here I will state the obvious.
the more wax your lube has in it, generally the more 'repair' it's going to need at the start.
I'm not gonna wander off into oil amounts or temperature windows or long shot strings or changing powder types or viscosity modifiers.

we have had what? 10-11 different responders to this thread,,,, I bet none of us use the same lube.
I know 3 of us have access to the same lube ingredients and can make some lubes others can't get.
but I bet on a day to day average we don't use the same lube.
our weather conditions are too far apart.
right now at 10 am mountain time, the temp here is like 3 or 4-F up from negative 11 last night. [the humidity was like 25% in the shop last I checked]
Ian's lube would probably become a solid mass of cracked and glazed wax if he took one of his guns outside in that.
if I hauled one of my rigs down there with my normal winter-spring lube I could tip the barrel down and the lube would probably drip out of the muzzle.

Dale is pretty much in between those 2 extremes and I'm sure he is using store bought lube [maybe modified slightly after our chat in Wyoming]

 

[Bass Ackward]

we have had what? 10-11 different responders to this thread,,,, I bet none of us use the same lube.][/QUOTE]

Wow Runny, jumped right to the lube as the over riding factor, huh? Interesting. I rode that train for a long time too.

 

[fiver]

as much time as I put in watching the stuff it's the biggest factor in keeping things consistent.
you got other stuff to consider of course but [shrug] what that gunk in the barrel is doing while the gun is waiting for you to drag it out again really has the bigger percentage affect on that first shot or two.

jacketed too, that's why Hbn is becoming a thing, it cuts down on that first flyer.

 

[dale2242]

OK, fiver is right about my lube.
I should have said what I was using to start with.
I guess I never thought about the fact that most of you have your favorite lube.
I find enough variables in this game without chasing my tail trying to make my own "special" lube.
Don`t get me wrong, I am not demeaning any one of you for making your own lube.
I would have no idea where to start.
I have only used one lube for the last 50+ years and that would be NRA 50/50.
Call me old school. BTW I am.
I am going to shoot a number of shots down the barrel before I get too serious about shooting groups.
Thanks for the advice guys. Don`t stop yet.

 

[Bret4207]

The stick with the 50/50! If it works, why change it? I still have a mess of stuff lubed with GAR 50/50 from a supply I bought years back when they were almost out of business. The question is prep and is it needed. If it is, it is. Depends on the gun from everything I've seen.

 

[Ian]

Why change from 50/50 lube? No reason if it works for you and what you do with it.

However, like most things, 50/50 has its limits. If you reach one of them and really want to get to the next level, you'll have to discover why it is failing and either fix it or engineer a new lube from scratch.

 

[Gary]

I'm not that fussy about first shot fliers since the only thing I shoot at is paper. But that's just me. I have gone exclusively to PC'd cast with a dash/tumble/swirl of BLL. Load em up and shoot away.