Considering looking into powder coating

[L Ross]

Not everything is equal in powder coating.

​

Powder Coating creates a Polymer coating/shell around the cast boolit

.....a) it helps protect the boolit from the barrel

.....b) it works as a lubricant between the boolit and the barrel

.....c) it protects the user (and user's kids) from the lead



Different atmospheric conditions can limit static or dampen the powder.



1) the powder must be kept dry ----I use double zipper bags in the NW where we get a lot of rain, store my powder in a garage with a gas furnace and WH

2) the boolits must be kept clean --- IF I'm not coating the boolits right away I put them in plastic zipper bags --- NEVER QUENCH before PCing!!!

.....a) baking the boolits will take most of the hardness you gain by quenching out of the boolit

.....b) quenching is a good way to contaminate the boolits so the PC won't stick well

.....c) quenching after PCing gives good results

.....d) touching the boolit with oily hands can/will affect the coating --- wear nitrile/plastic gloves or use a clean spoon or ? to move the boolits

PC can be dried out in an oven KEEP the temperature below 150° F (leaving the container open in an airconditioned room works) IF the PC is lumpy after drying it will quickly become powder again when you start swirl/shaking [I Rarely ever shake the container when PCing -- the containers don't last long when I do and just swirling gives me good results



3) the oven temperature must be checked with an oven thermometer (or 2) and the dial adjusted to where the thermometers read 400°

.....a) the oven temperatures will change with the surrounding air temperature due to location and type of sensor they use

.....b) toaster ovens work but only for smaller loads and have a tendency to have hot spots (some of the boolits can/will melt)

.....c) conventions ovens have been proven best because they have a circulating and the evenly heats all the boolits ---you can safely bake full trays of boolits



4) If the air/atmosphere is really damp you may need to pre-warm the boolits --- I use an oven set at 150° F or you can set a pan of boolits on to of your hot oven

.....a) the boolits must not be hotter than you can comfortably touch with bare hands or you can get PC clumping-- starting to cure



5) not all PC needs BB's/poly pellets to work --- this is a trial and error thing



6) polyester (usually TGIC) PC works best for me, I get better results with higher gloss powders



7) white/light colors generally don't cover well but adding a little of another color usually helps



8) COATING BOOLITS:

.....A) BOWLS

..........1) coating bowls/containers need to be plastic #5 or plastic #2

..........2) larger diameter bowls allow you to swirl/build up static faster thus cool whip bowls do such a good job

..........3) lids: if the bowl doesn't have a screw-on lid make sure you hang onto it or the lid will come open

.....B)STATIC BUILDING MEDIA: Normally cover the bottom of small bowls with 2 layers large bowls with 1 layer

..........1) ASBB (Air Soft BB's) black BB's are proven to work I've found camouflaged BB's that work also. It has to do with the hardness, what the BB's are made out of as to how well they help build static. even nonstatic building BB's will help even out the coating

..........2) Poly pellets normally black or white, haven't found any poly pellets that didn't help

.....C) Boolits:

..........1) use a minimum of 12-15 boolits -- enough to build up static

..........2) maximum no more than 2-3 layers deep in your bowl

.....D) Powder: This will vary on bowl size and number of boolits being coated

..........1)Ziploc Twist 'n Loc, after the BB's are coated, no more than 1 teaspoon per batch see how much PC is left in the bottom of the bowl after coating.

..........2) Cool Whip after the BB's are coated 1-2 teaspoons per batch see how much PC is left in the bottom of the bowl after coating.

..........3) Too much PC will prevent good static build-up

..........4) Too little PC will result in thin/spotty coating --- it's easy to add a little more and swirl a little longer

.....E) blending/mixing different PC is not like dealing with paint, white and black don't always make grey more often you get spotted/splotchy boolits

a) blending/mixing a little good PC with a bad PC often makes the bad PC work

b) blending/mixing multiple PCs can give you amazing results but the results will change with each batch you coat

c) some powders stick faster/better than others, the blend color will be heavier with that color to begin with then taper of when the color is used up in the bowl

.....F) SWIRLING: Screw or hold the lid tight and swirl the bowl holding it flat to verticle and back to flat, continue until all boolit are coated

.....G) preparing coated boolits:

..........1) REMOVE ALL EXCESS POWDER

.................a) Sift PC/boolits/BB's in a colander with something to catch the BB's and powder when they fall through the colander removing all excess PC

........................1) after all the PC/BB's are sifted off pick up the boolits with tweezers or fingers wearing surgical gloves (dipped in pc first to prevent sticking)

.................b) Pick up- dump PC'd boolits in a tray or? pick them up with tweezers, tap the tweezer on the side of a container to remove all excess PC

.....H) preparing to bake: Use a pan lined with non-stick paper/foil/bake mats or screen (1/4 hardware cloth)/wire basket (office supply)

..........a) stand short fat boolits up on their bases using finger or tweezer method

..........b) place taller boolits in silicone ice cube trays or use a metal grid to keep them from falling over

..........c) Dump method dump the sifted boolits in screen (1/4 hardware cloth)/wire basket (office supply) [this doesn't work well with all PC's you can get bad sticking

9) Baking PC the manufacturer states Bake for XX minutes at XXX° AFTER this condition exists

.....a) bake for XX minutes AFTER the boolits have reached XXX°

.....b) bake for XX minutes AFTER the PC starts to flow on the boolits

.....c) PC will look good after it flows and may pass the smash test BUT unless bakes to factory specifications IT IS NOT FULLY CURED

*****I have found that baking the coated boolits in an oven preheated to 400° for 25 minutes meets or exceeds all manufacturers requirements*****



10) Testing PC for adhesion/sticking using a smooth-faced hammer

.....a) flatten the PC'd cool boolit to 1/2 its original height seeing if any PC cracks or flakes off

.....b) hammer the PC'd cool boolit into a cube seeing if any PC cracks or flakes off

.....c) just because the PC passes the hammer test doesn't mean its fully cured, just that it is sticking well



11 SIZING

.....a) PC'd usually boolits size easily; if not, a little spray case lube can be used

.....b) IF PC is scraped off when sizing polish the entrance to your sizing die

..........1) with fine sandpaper made into a cone with the grit on the outside

..........2) with a Dremel tool, a felt boolit shaped polisher and some fine polishing compound --- I like Flitz

.....c)*** I like running a felt polisher in the sizing die for a few seconds to smooth the machine marks and make sizing easier

12 LOADING:

.....a) PC is normally loaded to regular cast boolit loads

.....b) GC usually aren't needed with PC's boolits until you reach 1600 - 2100 fps depending on the gun, powder, and boolit

.....c) PC'd boolits can work with a softer alloy and be pushed faster/harder than regular lubed boolits



***I like using different colored boolits to designate different diameters or powder charges***

God bless you guys. I tried to read all of that and decided that if I had to do all of that to shoot cast bullets, I'd quit.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Loaded a bunch of 40sw PCd the other day. Plunk test - they don't quite chamber all the way. Darn. Solution. 401 NOE sizer insert. Drop into back of insert, tap base with fiber/rubber mallet. Pull out. Now they chamber all the way. Another PC thickness/seating depth problem solved.

Sift off that powder coat just a lil longer and you will find far more consistant coating thicknesses!

 

[popper]

It's a TC 165gr PB, coating thickness variation is not the problem but tolerance stack up. I set my seating die from a loaded rnd I know works. Shot about 30 this morning, no jams. Case was rim thickness past the barrel hood in plunk test, now even XDM 40. Using Smoke's back gloss powder that doesn't flow real good. CFE pistol that is supposed to be flash suppressed (we'll see about that) - barrel is clean, just some burnt powder crumbles. Getting better at 'no sighting' shooting.
Shot the CVA BO that I checked with my ogive tester, worked fine. Practice 'acquiring' a target and fast shot. Scope set to 9 vs 12 works better.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have all but eliminated my ogive and GC issues with increased and consistent sifting before baking. I believe you will find the same.

CW

 

[Ian]

I seat/crimp checks and pre-size in a push-through die before coating and post-size while still soft from the oven in a two-diameter die to eliminate any nose fitting or concentricity issues.

 

[popper]

Been shooting this pistol 7-8 yrs now, cast & PC. Something off this time, fixed it without pulling 100 bullets. I don't like jams in semiauto guns. Guy next to me with his AR x39 had to pogo several times using factory ammo.

 

[Maxjon]

If there is some size to be gained, to me that's an inconsistent variable right there, thats not welcome in my cast beauties. It's hard enough to cast a good bullet, without introducing further variables. Just my take on it. Tell me I'm wrong....

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

If there is some size to be gained, to me that's an inconsistent variable right there, thats not welcome in my cast beauties. It's hard enough to cast a good bullet, without introducing further variables. Just my take on it. Tell me I'm wrong....

Inconsistent how? Thickness?
If the bullet alone is consistent enough for you, then PC dosent change that. As most will size after application.
CW

 

[Maxjon]

If there is some size to be gained, to me that's an inconsistent variable right there, thats not welcome in my cast beauties. It's hard enough to cast a good bullet, without introducing further variables. Just my take on it. Tell me I'm wrong

Inconsistent how? Thickness?
If the bullet alone is consistent enough for you, then PC dosent change that. As most will size after application.
CW

Yes coating thickness. If it's not of constant thickness, an unbalanced bullet will result.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

If there is some size to be gained, to me that's an inconsistent variable right there, thats not welcome in my cast beauties. It's hard enough to cast a good bullet, without introducing further variables. Just my take on it. Tell me I'm wrong

Yes coating thickness. If it's not of constant thickness, an unbalanced bullet will result.

I would agree if you couldnt just size them. The coatings have shown to be Incredibly versatile.
Last week without ANY SERIOUS CULLING AND NO WEIGHING, shot this with my cast RCBS 180 FN and 2400 powder.


If there was a problem with inconsistencies, this wouldnt be possible.
CW

 

[Maxjon]

I would agree if you couldnt just size them. The coatings have shown to be Incredibly versatile.
Last week without ANY SERIOUS CULLING AND NO WEIGHING, shot this with my cast RCBS 180 FN and 2400 powder.

View attachment 22173
If there was a problem with inconsistencies, this wouldnt be possible.
CW

Nice work!

 

[Reloader762]

If there is some size to be gained, to me that's an inconsistent variable right there, thats not welcome in my cast beauties. It's hard enough to cast a good bullet, without introducing further variables. Just my take on it. Tell me I'm wrong

Yes coating thickness. If it's not of constant thickness, an unbalanced bullet will result.

It's not as hard as you think to get a constant coating on your bullets, in fact you have to be doing things terribly wrong to get bad coating. I shot this five shot group out of an old cheap Rem. 770 in 30-06 with a NOE 30 XCB 170 gr. powder coated bullet @2300 fps.

 

[Maxjon]

Thats awesome! Healthy velocity too!

 

[Ian]

308 caliber AR-10, not weighed, all fed from the magazine, 100 yards:





Only 2460 fps due to 18" barrel. Pressure is running around 50K psi. 24" barrel of the Savage below left is getting about 2600 fps out of the same load.

 

[Maxjon]

308 caliber AR-10, not weighed, all fed from the magazine, 100 yards:

View attachment 22184

View attachment 22185

Only 2460 fps due to 18" barrel. Pressure is running around 50K psi. 24" barrel of the Savage below left is getting about 2600 fps out of the same load.

View attachment 22186

View attachment 22187

View attachment 22188

Far out! That's nice work! I'm now a believer! Care to share your coating methods?

 

[Ian]

I'm not the best at it, I think Ronnie (Reloder7.62) does some of the best work outside of ES spraying and he uses plastic pony beads in his containers. I use Airsoft BBs.





Toss in a curculat motion with the lid on for two minutes, the slam them straight up and down very hard about three times, stopping on the down stroke and not disturbing them any more until removing the lid and carefully picking them out with nodleneese, tapping off the excess on the edge of the container (hit the pier jaws on the edge, not the bullet itself), and placing them base-first on non-stick aluminum foil stretched over a piece of sheet steel. Bake in convection oven at 400⁰F for 22 minutes for a full tray of about 150-175 .30-caliber bullets. I get a very uniform thickness that way.

A good PC job won't make up for a poor casting job, and vice-versa. Still, people get quite acceptable results on target doing far worse than what you see on this thread.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Maxjon,

I have a number of videos on my uTube channel. A recient one is all about my process.

CW

 

[Ian]

How'd the round balls shoot, CW? I've been using BLL on .454 RBs in my 1860 cartridge cylinder. Are those 28-gauge hulls?

 

[Reloader762]

Far out! That's nice work! I'm now a believer! Care to share your coating methods?

This is how I PC my bullets, the method you or others use may be totally different and give you the results you like, and that what matters in the long run.


Tools:


Convention toaster oven for curing your bullets.


I prefer the convection oven because it heats more evenly. You can pick one up at a resale store on the cheap or just buy a new one for around $30 to $40 depending on what you like. ONLY use the oven for curing powder coated bullets or heat treating bullets from that point on, NEVER use it to cook food in afterwards. Get yourself an oven thermometer (WallyWorld for $7) to set your temperature dial as close as possible, most toaster ovens heat either cooler or hotter than the dial indicates. Set your oven to keep a constant temperature at around 400 degrees or whatever temper is specified by the powder coat mfg., if the temp runs +/- 25 degrees it want hurt anything but I prefer it to stay as close to 400 degrees as possible with the powders I use, you just don't want it to get too high or too cool.



Plastic container for tumbling bullets in.

You will need a one or more #5 plastic containers and lids depending on if you want to do more than one color, screw on types are the best but snap on lid types like I use work fine to. I use these two types of #5 container I recycle from home along with multicolor plastic pony beads I get at WallyWorld for $1.50 per pack, they are large enough that they want get stuck inside my big 45 ACP HP's. The combination has worked well for me to generate lots of static electricity to attract the powder to the bullets. One thing of note is that LOW HUMIDITY is your friend as it will make generating static electricity easy, I like it to be 40% or lower. At times, I've had to coat in the house and take them out to my reloading shed to cure.

#5 container from local restaurants.



Great Value Yogurt container.



Pony beads mainly but black airsoft BB's work just as well, I use both, but others may not find them necessary to achieve their desired results.



In the small container I place enough beads to fill the bottom about 1" deep, in the larger container I add enough to fill it between 1" and 2" but no more than that. I add about 1/2 TSP of powder to the container with the beads and shake it up for about 30 sec. notice how it already starts to stick to the beads and sides of the container. I always start out with 1 TSP if you need to add more powder to get the desired coat only add another 1/2 TSP to the mix as too much powders will clump on the bullets and you will have to tap it off before placing them on the baking tray. It's easy to add a little more powder to get a fine coating than having too much to start with. Some use no beads at all and get excellent results as well, I just like using the beads as they seem to help generate extra static and create a buffer between the bullets.



Next I add the bullets. Make sure they are clean of any dirt, oil or lube or any contaminates that might be on your hands as the powder will not stick. I like to wash mine in 100% Acetone if in question, and wear nitrile groves when handling bullets I plan on coating while putting them in the container. I generally add around 50 to 100 bullets to the container depending on caliber and weight, close the lid and shake in all directions for around 30 seconds. I used black air soft BB's that I had with the clear powder coat and they work great with clear, not so much with some other colors I've used, but the pony beads will work with all colors.



After about 30 seconds of shaking, I tap the lid to knock any powder off the inside and look at my bullets to see how they are coated. If they pass my inspection, they should look like this or the ones in the white clear coat above.



Next I take my baking sheet and line it with a piece of Reynolds Parchment Paper, there are cheaper brands of that type of paper but I think the Reynolds works best and I get around 3 uses out of a sheet before I toss it, other like silicone baking mats, trays etc., but powder residue tends to build up over time on those so I just use the paper. I take a pair of long tweezers and place all my bullets base first onto the paper, it takes some time to do it this way, but I can easily have the next tray of bullets ready to cure by the time the first batch is done. Many just dump the bullets into a screens tray, shake off the excess powder dump them and bake, but I like the results I get standing them up individually and the powder flow and migrates evenly with no lumps or flat spots. Then I pop them in a 400 degree preheated oven and set the timer for (20 min. after the powder starts to gloss over.)



Powders I like to use.


Super Durable Clear or Carolina or Signal Blue are all excellent powders to coat with. Smoke will sell you a pound of powder divided into 3 1/3rd lb. bags of his colors if you like, but these are the colors I like and that have worked for me the best with no fuss.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241259-Hi-quality-Powder-for-DT-or-Spraying-bullets

Eastwood powders I like.

Eastwood HotCoat® Ford Dark Blue Powder Coat

Replicate that Dark Blue found on many Ford vehicles.

www.eastwood.com

Eastwood HotCoat® Ford Light Blue Powder Coat

This glossy light blue looks just right on many Fords.

www.eastwood.com

Eastwood HotCoat® Machine Gray Powder Coat

Provides a glossy warm gray finish similar to what was commonly used on machines & equipment.

www.eastwood.com

A few notes on cast bullet air cooled or quenched from the mold and how the curing process will anneal the cast lead bullets using an alloy that responds to water quenching or heat treating.

1. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them and allow them to air cool again the second time, there is no change in the as cast BHN of the bullet.


2. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster oven, they will gain a hardness of about 75% over the as cast BHN.


3. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and allow them to air cool, they will soften around 50% from the original first quenching BHN.


4. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster oven a second time, you only loose around 15% hardness from the first quenching.

 

[Ian]

^^^^^^^outstanding!