Eastwood Clear, 375 or 400 degrees?

[Joshua]

Hey guys, I‘ve got a question. l just bought my first pound of PC powder, and was reading the directions on the bag. The powder is Eastwood Full Gloss Clear (a Polyester TGIC powder). On the bag and on their website they call out 375 degrees F as the cure temp for the Clear Gloss. They say that the lower temp reduces yellowing. I personally could care less if I get yellowing on my bullets.

Now on this site I see almost exclusively 400 degrees F as the suggested temp. I know at least a few of you use Eastwood powders, so what say you. Should I shoot for 375 or 400? Those of you using Clear Gloss powders what has worked for you?

Thanks in advance,
Josh

 

[Ian]

Follow the directions. Make sure you actually monitor bullet surface temperature and bake for the required time after the bullets reach cure temperature because part metal temperature (PMT) and time spent at cure PMT are the only curing factors that really matter.

ETA I have some poly tgic Kawasaki Green that cures in 10 minutes @ 350⁰F PMT and can be used on polymer dirtbike parts. Nary a problem with it on bullets and it's seen over 2300 fps.

 

[Joshua]

Ok, follow the directions it is.

Josh

 

[Mitty38]

Yep^^^

 

[Rick H]

My cheap B&D convection oven has a hard time keeping things within 25-50 degrees. Mine is set so it doesn't cycle over about 410*F which means curing is done between 360-410* or so and it works fine. I make sure mine stay in the oven for 20min. after flow out and it works for me.
I use Smoke's powder and HF red (mixed trying to use up the HF)
Following directions is almost always wise, but I think worrying about exact temperatures with a typical small convection oven is silly. Watching the Taylor Oven Thermometer fluctuate when the oven cycles on and off is an eye opener. I don't want temps to go too high and have the bullets slump.

 

[Joshua]

I know I should get a convection oven!

In the meantime.

I built a contraption. Aluminum plates with ceramic tiles top and bottom. This will hopefully distribute the heat evenly.

Oh! And I made some baskets!

The wife is sick so I have to run to the pharmacy. Gonna bake a batch later this evening after dinner.

Josh

 

[Brad]

My convection oven runs very steady on a PID. I simply drilled a hole in the side of the oven and stuck a long thermocouple in. Once at temp it varies by only a degree or two.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

All thats nice. But I have done tens of thousands with out the expense. Good thermometer is a must.

I use lava rock in the bottom of mine. Ceramic aughta do same same.

I agree just follow MFG recommendations. As a general rule 400/20 is the answer but diff colors and mfgs have different times and temps.

Good luck!

CW

 

[Joshua]

This is just a $5.00, garage sale, toaster oven. There is no fan. No convection. I have read that the main reason that a convection oven is desirable is to alleviate hot spots. So I built a chamber inside the oven that should distribute the heat more evenly. If it works, then that’s great! Is not then the scrap that I built it out of can go back to the scrap pile.
It will most likely get replaced when a good oven goes on sale, or I find one in the thrift store.
Josh

 

[Mitty38]

THE INSTRUCTIONS ARE TIGHT FOR A REASON.TO MAKE UP FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF OPERATOR ERROR OR TEMPERATURE DRIFT, AND SO FORTH. Just follow the directions, use your toaster oven and things should be ok.
PC is intended for use in industrial applications, with little training, and large batches, It is forgiving by nature.
I would just start out with a small batch, If it does not flow well turn it up a bit. If it yellows turn it down, then mark where it works best with a sharpie on the temp dial.
First you need to develop a procedure, get the methods down, then worry about better temp control, PID'S, methods and so forth. Sometimes you need to twerk those methods with collar changes.
You need a base line to start with, and the only way to get that is to get started. Then be consistent with what you have. Refinement will come later.
IF YOU MESS SOME UP IT IS JUST THE COST OF LEARNING.
DO NOT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF TO START, YOU WILL NICKLE AND DIME YOURSELF TO DEATH AND NEVER GET OFF THE GROUND.

 

[waco]

I preheat my convection toaster over to 400 degrees(oven thermometer)
Place Bullets in oven and bake for 25 min. for good measure. No issues. I use the same Eastwood super gloss clear.

 

[Joshua]

Well that went surprisingly well!

These were baked for 20 minutes at 375 to 390 degrees. I like how the ceramic tile mini-pizza oven worked. I did follow the directions!

I smashed one of the wadcutters. The coating seems to have held up great. No cracking or separation.

So that Lyman 311290 in the picture is what convinced me to powder coat. A few months ago I sold a batch of bullets and the mold they came from, a Lyman 311284, to a member here. The reason for the sale was undersized bullets, that wouldn’t work in my gun.

Ok, I moved on, you win some you loose some. I wanted a long heavy bullet and had another mold I was gonna try, this 311290. Well wouldn’t you know, it also casts undersized. As cast it’s .309” on the driving bands and .298” on the nose.

I wasn’t gonna sell another mold and do it all over again. I decided it was time for PC. Powder coated these 311290 bullets are now the perfect size! The nose is .300” and the bands are .312”.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Josh

 

[Spindrift]

Those are some fine looking bullets you have there, Joshua!
Powder coating sure is a very useful tool, and in many ways. Suddenly, you find yourself appreciating moulds casting under-sized bullets

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Good job!! Yup I do that too! I even bought a whole pile of Lyman 45 Devastators some years back because somehow they where all
Undersized and the seller was looking to unload. 1$ a POUND! He had over 1/2 a 5gal bucket. All looked pretty good too. I tossed maybe 5/7% but the rest where cleaned and dried and cleaned again then powder coated and sized 452. They shoot just fine now.

CW

 

[358156 hp]

I tried the ceramic tile thing too, but ended up ordering 3/16 (IIRC) steel plates, cut to fit the shelf slots in my convection oven. I have silicone baking mats on top of that because the non-stick aluminum foil thing got old pretty quick. I have yellowed some batches of clear bullets, and it doesn't seem to affect anything, they just look a little yellowed. I use higher cure temps and longer bake times because I water quench most calibers straight out of the oven.

 

[fiver]

I just over load the oven and crank it up to top temperature.

 

[Mitty38]

I wasn’t gonna sell another mold and do it all over again. I decided it was time for PC. Powder coated these 311290 bullets are now the perfect size! The nose is .300” and the bands are .312”.

One more tip: I think I owe you that much. LOL .
Different pigments can give slightly different mills of thickness.
A clear may generally be giving you 1-3 thou. The Pigmented can get you thicker. Plus if you coat with pigment and need a little more thickness you can always clear over them.
You can also control thickness somewhat by the amount you shake off. So if you are happy with your results, try and duplicate what you just did to a tee.
Once you get yourself trained to be consistent it will become 2nd nature for you. Then you can start experimenting with procedure, other powders and such,and Know what the results are saying to you.

 

[Joshua]

Well,
I’ve got two more pounds on it’s way. Eastwood squirrel grey and Henry’s blue.

I’ve now baked five batches. My little toaster oven takes most of 10 minutes to come back up to heat. And then for twenty minutes it goes from 375 up to between 390 to 400, depending on how many bullets I’ve filled it with.

Having lots of fun!

Josh

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have gone a couple years without Eastwood powders.
Last year I bought some then some more. It was everything everyone said. BUT... It was not friendly to my basket methods. Regardless of how I adjusted. This was Why I picked up some silicone sheets. Bingo!! Winner winner chicken dinner. BUT its a thicker coating then most all Others I have used.
I called and spoke with some techs at Eastwood and they where most helpful. If ya want from the horses mouth there are the ones to call!!

Know and or realize this process of shake and bake is ours alone. Meaning the powders are NOT DESIGNED with this application methods in mind. So NOT ALL COLORS WORK!! I wont say manufactures cause I have t seen one that dosent. Only colors that dont work as well as others. So dont bear yourself up untill you know it's something your doing.

Stand up on Silicone baking sheets produces the best quality bullets esp with East wood powders. Other brands may produce EXACTLY same with basket baking. But its trial and error to learn.

This is some 63g 223 bullets I cast this AM.



Thats as many as would fit in my basket and remain in a single layer.

I powder coated then sifted off Vigorously in TBREE BASKETS. Then into this basket and baked for 20/400. This powder is my own mix Mirror Blk/Gloss White/Metalic Silver.



It "stuck" to basket. But "popped free" with a push up and down and another vigorous shake. Not a mark to be found on any of these bullets. This is one of the powders I rely upon when I basket bake.

Here is a video I put up last night GC'ing these bullets. Because of the thin coat GC was very smooth.

Good luck

CW

 

[Joshua]

CW,

I have PC’d two different gas check bullets. The first batch was the Lyman 311290, this bullet seems to be undersized in all dimensions, and the shank was no exception. After coating the checks were still a little loose. They crimped on just right.
Now the Lyman 311041, was another story. I’m glad it is a flat nosed bullet because I’m having to press the checks onto them.

Wish I had watched your vid first. I might have shaken off a bit more powder.

The Eastwood powder is so cheap on Amazon. I couldn’t stop myself from buying a few more pounds.
So who makes powder that can be applied thinner? I’m glad that I started with the clear gloss. It sounds like clears go on thinner.

Mitty,
This is all your fault! Once I realized that I could have made that 311284 work for me. If only I had only taken the leap into powder coating, it lit a fire under my behind to get in gear. Thanks for the inspiration!

Josh