My Granddad was maintenence foreman for a cement plant from the late 40s to the late 60s. Brake Fluid was his go to penetrant. I'm sure there's been advances since that time, but he used alot of the stuff.
Ed's Red
- Thread starter rodmkr
- Start date
My Granddad was maintenence foreman for a cement plant from the late 40s to the late 60s. Brake Fluid was his go to penetrant. I'm sure there's been advances since that time, but he used alot of the stuff.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
I use and love Ed's Red. Getting ready to make up another batch and parse it out.
Regarding penetrating oil, always been told/led to believe that Kroil was it. Never heard about using straight ATF, but now I have. BUT - I will throw another curve into that mix! I had a screw that Kroil did nothing for. In a convo with an old school gunsmith, he gave me this advice. Wintergreen Oil!!!
Go to drug store, ask pharmacist for bottle of Wintergreen Oil. Seems it can be poisonous if ingested? And Pharm gave me a real odd look when I asked, but had a bottle. 4oz for $7. Told him what I wanted it for. Not a controlled substance, just odd req
Take an eye dropper, give the stuck screw a cpl drops. wait 24 hrs. rinse and repeat 3x times. Have to give the oil time to penetrate. I did this on a very small delicate 3-4mm screw - 3x times. At the end of 3-4 days, backed right out!
Regarding penetrating oil, always been told/led to believe that Kroil was it. Never heard about using straight ATF, but now I have. BUT - I will throw another curve into that mix! I had a screw that Kroil did nothing for. In a convo with an old school gunsmith, he gave me this advice. Wintergreen Oil!!!
Go to drug store, ask pharmacist for bottle of Wintergreen Oil. Seems it can be poisonous if ingested? And Pharm gave me a real odd look when I asked, but had a bottle. 4oz for $7. Told him what I wanted it for. Not a controlled substance, just odd req
Take an eye dropper, give the stuck screw a cpl drops. wait 24 hrs. rinse and repeat 3x times. Have to give the oil time to penetrate. I did this on a very small delicate 3-4mm screw - 3x times. At the end of 3-4 days, backed right out!
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Also, on another note, also getting ready to make a batch of Joe Chambers NGAMU Red Oil (Joe's hand written recipe) . Buddy of mine - shot with them for years, swears by it. But, he also says 22s don't like it in cold weather
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I don't know what standard brake fluid is made up of but I know it's hydroscopic. I think that's the word, it will hold water or attract it or something. That's reported to be why you find rust inside of parts of the brake system that should be air tight and never rust. I know for a fact it will mar, badly, some types of auto paint and it can be death on some "rubber" type products. One of the classic farm fixes for a leaky seal is to add a couple tablespoons of brake fluid to your tranny or rear end or pump. It will swell and soften many types of seals. I would imagine, in fact I know, it will penetrate some types of dirt and rust on equipment as I have used it for that. But it doesn't seem to be much of a lube IME. I can't for the life of me recall it's effect on grease and oils, if I ever noticed in the first place.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Oil of Wintergreen was an old timey trick. And yes, it's supposed to be a very deadly poison. I'm not sure if it's one of the ones you shouldn't even get on your skin and that might depend on what it's distilled into- alcohol, a petroleum based substance, water, natural oils, etc. My wife had some mint oil tincture I think she made that if you got it on you finger tip, just a drop and wiped it right off, you'd taste the mint within a minute or so in your mouth. Some of that stuff is nothing to play with, even if you mouth does taste minty fresh!
ATF was reputed to be what Singer Sewing Machine Oil was, more or less. That was another old timey "secret". Marvel Mystery Oil was also supposed to be heavy on ATF. Seafoam and several other carb cleaners are allegedly heavy on acetone and something like benzine with some wood alcohol mixed in. Who knows? Some works, some doesn't. You can look at the MSDS and get a basic idea but what quantities of what substance are mixed in makes it what it is. The good smelling ingredient of Hoppes #9 is supposed to be banana oil! Whatever it is I like it a lot.
FWIW, I've tried several of the "non-toxic" cleaner/degreasers marketed and the "environmentally friendly" type of mineral spirits/paint thinner. It's wasted money IMO. One of the cleaners is called "Simple Green" and is supposed to be the cats. IME it's not even as effective as hot, soapy water, but it's a lot more expensive. Maybe I'm just impatient, but I'll stick with plain old diesel for parts washing, followed by an ATF scrub followed by an ether washdown if I want something really clean.
Oil of wintergreen is methyl salicylate. Common in some linements for sore muscles.
It can be toxic in small doses. One ml, 20 drops, is equivalent to 6 regular strength aspirin. That means a teaspoonful would be equivalent to 30 tablets. Even a few drops could be dangerous for a young child.
It can be toxic in small doses. One ml, 20 drops, is equivalent to 6 regular strength aspirin. That means a teaspoonful would be equivalent to 30 tablets. Even a few drops could be dangerous for a young child.
Chris
Well-Known Member
I had read that too years ago. I found the results posted below, but note that the protocol was for an 8 hour soak before loosening. Also, Amazon has oil of wintergreen, just bought some there.
"The April/May 2007 edition of Machinist's Workshop did a test of penetrating oils where they measured the force required to loosen rusty test devices. Buy the issue if you want to see how they did the test. The results reported were interesting. The lower the number of pounds the better. Mighty interesting results for simple acetone and tranny fluid!
Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
None ................. 516 pounds .
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds .. $0.25
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds .. $0.35
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds .. $0.21
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds .. $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds .. $0.10
The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio)."
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Brad, do you know if "oil of wintergreen" is actually made from wintergreen plants? I've read about it for years, but my wife is a big hebalist type and I've never noticed anything about wintergreen in her books. I thought it might be one of those old names that stuck through the years.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
That's the one Chris. Well done! FWIW, PB Blaster is good stuff if used as it was intended to be used. It's original purpose was to soften hardened grease, like in a spindle tube on a wagon gear. Works great for that but not so much as a penetrating lube IME. Stinks too to my nose.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Methyl salicylate is an organic compound with the formula C₆H₄. It is the methyl ester of salicylic acid. It is a colorless, viscous liquid with a sweet odor. It is produced by many species of plants, particularly wintergreens.
Formula: C8H8O3
Molar mass: 152.1494 g/mol
Density: 1.17 g/cm³
Melting point: 15.8°F (-9°C)
Acidity (pKa): 9.8
Density: 1.174
Formula: C8H8O3
Molar mass: 152.1494 g/mol
Density: 1.17 g/cm³
Melting point: 15.8°F (-9°C)
Acidity (pKa): 9.8
Density: 1.174
It was extracted from wintergreen plants in the past but today is made in an industrial plant.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The commercial stuff is not chemically pure, so I don't know what it is dissolved in for a carrier. Very basic, but I don't look up how strong it was.