Emergency Generators

Hawk

North Central Texas
I know this was talked about in another thread, but I need to buy a generator in case the power goes out again this winter.
Forecast is for a cold winter. Natural gas supplies are reported to be low due to hurricanes. I can easily see blackouts due to fuel shortages for power plants.
I have a narural gas furnace and I want a generator to keep it going in an outage. Really just need power for the fan. 3/4 hp, I think.
Not looking to run the whole house, just the furnace, a coffee pot, a couple of lamps and maybe the microwave.
5 ton furnace.
My brother has a 3500 watt, but that is reserved in case my mother's power goes out.
Inverter generators are much more expensive that regular generators.
Do I really need one and how big?
It really won't be used for anything else and I hate to spend the extra money, if I don't need to.
Sorry for covering this again.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Here's what I got https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B086...&pd_rd_r=1b20d18e-646d-48cb-b3d7-0c02aa08c34c

What you need to focus on is how you're going to disconnect your service and switch the connection to genset. Depending on municipality, you will likely have to have a licensed electrician install a manual or automatic changeover box. Boxes are not cheap and neither is getting one installed.

As for gensets, I chose a dual fuel which will run on propane cylinders or any regulated propane source. This is so I never have to worry about sour gasoline.
 
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STIHL

Well-Known Member
I would buy an LP or gas or a dual fuel, I don't like to rely on natural gas, that's just me though. As Ian said every municipality is different, but the easiest way to power it all is add a breaker of the appropriate size to your panel, wire the generator in and use that breaker as your transfer switch, just remember to turn your main off before you apply generator power to your panel.

As far as size id get at least a 6000watt continuous, that will give you 25 amps at 240 volts, if you can find a 7000 continuous that will give you almost 30 amps. 30 is enough to run the fridge the deep freeze, and the fan on your furnace and probabnly several other items in your house.

inverter generators are good and all, but id rather have the old style they are tried and true and give very little trouble.
 
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Hawk

North Central Texas
I'm in town, so propane storage tanks are out. I do have five or 6, 20# propane bottles. I don't know how long a generator would run on one of those.
The furnace actually plugs into an electrical outlet in the attic. I was just going to unplug it from the outlet and plug into an extension cord run from the generator.
I was going to remove a deadbolt and pass the extension cord thru the deadbolt hole, keeping the generator outside.
I was looking to buy a portable generator that I could run in the back yard.
The furnace doesn't have to run full time. Just a few hours at a time to keep the house temp up and maybe charge some batteries.
Harbour Freight has a sale on them. That's what got me to thinking about this.
 
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Rick H

Well-Known Member
I have a gas powered craftsman portable generator. 4500 W surge and something like 3500W regular output. It runs my furnace and appliances just fine (not AC) I just pull the main fuse/breaker and plug into the house circuit via a male/male #12 extension cord. It turns out that my home is wired with furnace and lighting for half the house on one circuit and the kitchen and other half of the house on another. Depending which receptacle I plug into I can cook/run refrigerator/freezer and watch TVin the Front of the house, or I can heat and watch TV in the back of the house.
Running the furnace for about 1/2 hour every 2 or three keeps it livable even in zero*F weather. The fridg/freezers are fine for longer than that if you don't keep opening doors. I don't try to keep the whole house powered all the time.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Depends on the load. Five gallons of propane can last a very long time. If you had 5-6 bottles full at all times you'd be set and in a real emergency could always start using the gasoline from your vehicles.
 

Bisley

Active Member
When I bought the house, I needed to upgrade the natural gas regulator to 500k BTU to accommodate existing appliances (previous owner hadn't done that - HUD home), and an 11K watt standby generator plumbed directly to the regulator. NIPSCO can cut out anytime or season in suburban Northwest Indiana. This is a Generac, the model I have does not have the regulating mechanism to adjust for electric load or power consumption. It runs at 11k-watt generating capacity the whole time the power's out. Five seconds after lights out, it starts up and runs everything but the garage and outlets on the south wall. We plan for that. Call it $6,500, purchased, with regulator upgrade (but I had to do that anyway), gasline plumbing, and installation.
I got it to make sure the sump pump, furnace, kitchen, bathrooms, and downstairs chest freezer would stay operational. I worked for Service Master several years back doing water remediation. The insurance never covers everything, we all know, but my time, heirlooms, and value to the home reporting past water damage is worth what I paid for the unit.
I also believe the outside plumbing and pad, along with the add value to the home. It's too big to steal without a fuss.

Just my experience. Around New Years, the power cut out due to heavy snowfall. The power was out 22 hours, and our monthly gas bill saw an increase of, I believe, $12.00. Five seconds was a long wait in the dark when folding whipped egg whites into the chocolate souffle with the oven preheated. I breathed a HUGE sigh of relief when the generator and lights came back on. Mrs. Bisley and I had dessert thirty minutes later.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I've got this one. Yep spent a bundle but with an all electric house on a well when the power goes out I can't even flush the commode. I've also got thousands in meds in the fridge that have to be refrigerated and an HVAC for heat/AC. Comes with the Automatic Transfer Switch. When the power is out within 15 seconds the generator is running, shore power is isolated and it's powering the entire house. It runs on propane or natural gas, no gas in this area so mine is on a 500 gallon bulk propane tank. There is a difference in running natural gas. Mine is rated at 22kw on propane, the same unit on natural gas is 19.5kw. In addition to the genset cost is installation. I can do most everything electrical around the house but when I saw what was involved in properly wiring in the Automatic Transfer Switch the $1300 I paid the electrical contractor seemed pretty cheap. In addition should there be a problem and it burns down the house or fry's a utility line worker I'm covered with the licensed contractor.

This is the same unit that Winelover and Smokey Wolf have.

Generac does have several smaller units available.

 

Bisley

Active Member
Rick makes an excellent point about getting a licensed contractor to install the generator. Liability is as big an issue as reliability. I was teased by "prepper wannabees" about going off the grid, underground, etc. I finally gave up and reminded people, if the Republic collapses, underground utilities are the last things to go...
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
What Rick said, but I went totally through a contractor. Bought the Generac, switch and all other parts, plus installation from the contractor. Got the same price on everything as lowest internet prices, plus, anything, absolutely anything goes wrong, they have to back it up. I also have them do the annual service on the generator. They've been very good to deal with and only 12 minutes down the road from me.

Hawk, I know my situation is completely different from yours, but were I in your shoes, I'd talk to Ian some more. He has spooky good reasoning skills and rarely misses or overlooks a detail.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I actually went with 2 smaller generators.
i didn't do the heater but have a box there so I could wire it in to one of them in like 5 minutes if necessary.
long before that point I'd have a fire rolling in the shop with a box fan easily heating the main floor and upstairs.... [done tested that many times]
you really have to assess your own situation and the workarounds your capable of.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
We went 4 days without power last February with the outside temps down to -4 on my patio.
I had a fire in the fireplace with seasoned wood, but had to feed it every 1 to 1-1/2 hours. That gets old after 4 days.
Inside temp in the house went down to about 42* on the outer rooms. Walls were colder.
I had 12 volt fans blowing air over the pipes and still had a couple of them freeze.
400 watt Inverter on deep cycle batteries provided lights and charging for the phones.
Just didn't have power for the furnace that would have made all to difference.
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
Does brand make a difference for one that will just be a stand by for 15 years?
 

Hawk

North Central Texas
And do I need the inverter model for the refrigerators, freezers, and furnace.
I read the fluctuation in the voltage could burn out the circuit boards.
Or is this where brand comes in handy?
 

Ian

Notorious member
Get an external line conditioner if you intend to run sensitive electronics. You may already have one with an internal battery backup for your computer. $150 last time I checked.

Unless you invest in something like the Generac units which have been mentioned frequently, you're going to be more or less "winging it" and will be making a few concessions. Don't think you'll be able to buy replacement control boards or brushes for the Chinese units in 3-5 years, but is reasonable to expect that they'll get you through emergencies for years to come if you take care of them. You're talking about an HF unit, not a $5-10,000 stand-alone power station from a well-established company which will be serviceable for decades.

By the way, the same storm caused me to upgrade to my 10KW unit. I have a 9KW continuous diesel set but it has engine trouble and won't keep RPM steady or high enough for clean power at rated voltage once it gets warmed up; it's an older Chinese model and has zero parts support. My 2500W is only 12VDC and 120AC, couldn't run the heat pump with it but could keep the heat tape going. We took out our wood heater a few years ago and I had to improvise some propane backup to keep us from freezing. After the thaw, I decided to upgrade and did a lot of research. The best bang for the buck by far was the dual-fuel unit I linked. I had it delivered through A-zon to my door via a contract delivery service.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Some good points above, allow me to add a little.

There are 4 choices for fuel, and they all have pros & cons.
Gasoline is generally available but not in emergencies and it doesn't store well. It's good for short term, occasional use like camping and construction projects but it has some real limitations in large-scale, long term weather-related events.
Diesel can be a bit better in terms of storage, but it loves to attract water. Good tanks are needed. It has some of the same supply problems as gasoline during weather emergencies.
Natural gas has no storage issues and there is a built-in supply network. HOWEVER, you are totally dependent on that supply network, and you are at the mercy of any failure of that distribution network.
Propane stores very well but you must have a sufficient supply on hand before the emergency strikes. There will be NO hope of obtaining propane during the emergency.

Personally, I think gasoline is a poor choice for anything other than a small portable generator, although it is well suited for small generators that are run intermittently.

Diesel is a good option when you already store large quantities of it (farm, ranch, logging operations, etc.).

Natural gas has no storage issues and IF the system works, there’s a nearly limitless supply available. (or at least as much as you’re willing to pay for ;)) If you’re willing to accept the possible collapse of the supply system, Natural Gas is a good choice.

Propane allows much of the benefits of natural gas and allows you to be far more independent of a supply network.

As for wattage requirements, that’s easy. Add up your demands, factor in starting loads, add a little buffer and there’s your answer. Remember, you don’t have to run everything at once, but some things need to run longer than others.

The key to all of this is prior planning. There will be NO TIME to address the issue once the emergency begins.

My personal strategy is – IF YOU DON’T HAVE IT BEFORE THE EMERGENCY OCCURS, YOU JUST WILL NOT HAVE IT DURING THE EMERGENCY.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I have a Honda EU3000is I could sell though I have no clue how I could get it to you. Nope, I ain't driving to Texas. Additionally it hasn't been run in several years and I have no doubt it will need the entire fuel system cleaned out. I didn't try to start it but gas isn't going to sit there that long and not go bad & gum up everything. When I put it away it was running perfectly.

If your interested and the fuel system is something you can handle and your willing to drive to Arkansas let me know and we can talk price.

Here is a new one for reference:


Key Specs
Item#100556
BrandHonda Power Equipment
Manufacturer's Warranty3 year limited warranty
Ship Weight144.0 lbs
Surge Watts3,000
Rated Watts2,800
Fuel TypeGasoline
Engine ModelGX200
EngineHonda
Engine Displacement (cc)196
Noise Level (dB)57
Start TypeElectric, recoil
Fuel Capacity (gal.)3.4
Run Time20 hrs. at 1/4 load; 7.25 hrs. at rated load
Receptacles (qty.)(2) 20A 125V, (1) 30A 125V locking plug
Low Oil ShutdownYes
CARB CompliantNo
Product Weight134
Dimensions L x W x H (in.)25.8 x 18.9 x 22.4
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I did 19 days in sub-zero temps once, and I've done several more 2-5 day stretches in sub-zero to 90F + temps. Yeah, a little 3500 watt Honda will do a lot. OTOH, a real generator will do a lot more. I mean either PTO powered or a real quality self contained unit. (FWIW- Generac has a crap reputation on the forums I'm on that deal with small gas/diesel engines and hardware run by them. But, they are popular and well priced. Hope you guys that have have a run of luck!) I have no idea what Texas weather is like, but what is being described sounds like a good place for a 8-10K watt Honda or other reliable make. You will never, ever be sorry for having some excess capacity or reliability. You could look into a 100 lbs propane tank, runs $80-120.00 to buy and a bit less to fill.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Not much doubt, Honda is the absolute leader in reliable small engines, be it mowers, generators or whatever else. That Honda EU3000is generator that Rick has is, in my opinion, the best camping generator extant. I've known a couple of people who owned them and said, 'not the cheapest, but worth every penny and then some.'
Don't know if Honda makes a whole house stand-by generator in the 2200K to 2600K range, but I went with the Generac because it is the most popular in these parts, so parts and those who are practiced in repair are widely available here.