Expiration date on loaded cast bullet ammo?

[Spindrift]

Usually, when I load a batch of cast bullet ammo, it gets shot after only a few days. The other day, I was shooting a box of 6,5x55 ammo, loaded with pan lubed bullets, with tumble lube overcoat. I always wipe the bullet base after pan lubing, but leave the small amount of tumble lube.
The load was a proven performer, 20 grs N120. This is a consistent load, but it is quite near «the wall», 1 grain more of powder and accuracy goes south. The cartridges had been stored with the bullets facing up, maybe 3 months?

Accuracy was consistently bad, with group sizes 2- 3x normal. Checked the usual things; scope mount, torque, even changed scope from the cheapo mil-dot I was using to the (very) trusted Vx-6. No dice. The shape of the groups seemed to indicate slightly to much pressure.

A couple of years ago, I shot a box of .30-06 ammo, stored for about 6 months. Proven loads with imr4198. Tumble lubed bullets. I got unexpectedly bad accuracy, and actually a few after-burners. These loads were also at the top end of the pressure tolerance of the alloy/bullet/lube- system.

It seems, in these cases, some sort of reaction must have occured between lube remnants on the base, and the powder.

What is your experience in shooting stored ammo, loaded with lubed bullets?

 

[Intheshop]

Awhile back I started to do a very nonchalant "test",which was to find an old box of loaded ammo then pull that rig from the safe and see how they do.

By the second or 3rd attempt,which happened to be a H&R 30-30.... I got sidetracked,and started loading for it again,then found a youth stock,ordered a paracord sling with pink accents and set it up for a Gdaughter.

On one hand the experience failed..... on the other,had lots of fun.

Will say,my hunting ammo which is 90% of what gets loaded,stays very close to "fresh" for 6 months or so. The extreme weather difference in that time concerns me more than anything,cartridge'ly speaking. I check zero and first round X's constantly.....

 

[Winelover]

I loaded at least 500 rounds of 9 mm with conventionally lubed cast, just before Y2K. Recently, been shooting them for the brass. So far, nary a hiccup.

 

[Bret4207]

I've used TL loads that are several years old with no signs of deterioration. But that's me, not you. Could be it's a lot hotter where you are and I've never used any of the powder you did. Can you pull any to take a look at the powder/primer? Any history of that powder not storing in loaded rounds well?

 

[Cherokee]

I have a batch of 38 Special with 358477 & Herco that I loaded back in the early 80's. Every few years I shoot some, accuracy doesn't seem to have changed and all go bang.

 

[Rick]

Only such problem I've ever had was one time I left a couple of boxes of conventionally lubed revolver loads on a picnic table at a match. They were in the shade and I never gave a it a thought. Came back a few hours later and they weren't in the shade anymore. Boxes were nearly too hot to handle. Several mis-fires and duds. Bullets were in MTM boxes bullet down but it seems they got hot enough to melt the lube. Worst part was that I was out of state at a championship match and that was my revolver match ammo. Other than that one time I've shot cast loads that were many years old without issue.

 

[Spindrift]

Bret, all the rounds got «pulled» at the range, so an autopsy is not possible..... Good idea, though- will do next time I run into strange surprises while shooting.
There are lots of variables in this game, might very well be something other than the storage time. I just don’t understand what yet. Have torn down the rifle without finding anything wrong there.

I will just file it under «unwelcome but noteworthy observations», and see if a pattern emerges over time.

Thank you for all replies!

 

[JonB]

While it could be the Lube...lube/powder reaction...depends on lube and storage temp... I need to ask if you worked up these loads in weather (ambient temperature/humidity) that was different when months later when you shot them and got poor accuracy?

 

[quicksylver]

Try loading some=new loads and see how they perform.. I have shot some conventionally lubed rifle rounds that were well over 20 years old with no issues what so ever they were stored in a dry cool area

 

[Spindrift]

@JonB, I have shot this load in various conditions, but come to think of it- it was an unusually warm evening. You might be on to something there.
@quicksylver ; will absolutely try again, with some slightly lighter loads as well.

 

[Pistolero]

I have used conventional handloads with cast bullets that were 25 years old with no problems. Stored in
a dry basement that never gets hotter than 75F or colder than 55F. I have shot jacketed bullet rifle handloads
older than that without problems, stored similarly.

I would assume that conventionally lubed bullets, if left in a car on a summer day (140-160F) may bleed lube
into the powder, so I avoid leaving ammo in the car. I learned this when I had a box of cast handloads
in the trunk years ago in the summer, bullets-down orientation, and later found lube solidified on the bullet forward section
outside the case. I assume that if the same conditions happened to bullets-up oriented ammo, the lube could
flow into the powder, and cause problems. Exactly what would happen, I'm not sure, but nothing good, probably
misfires or low velocity, I would guess.

Bill

 

[Spindrift]

Excellent!
Time-related deterioration seems very unlikely, then. My guess is, JonB hit the bullseye; weather conditions. The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems. Will find a more stable node, maybe try another powder.

 

[Rick]

Quite doubtful the problem has anything to do with the powder. If there were any issues with any Viht powder age deteriorating much less in only 3 months you would certainly have heard a great deal about. In fact you would probably hear nothing but how bad the stuff is.

I've never used Ben's Red and I don't tumble lube so I can't really speak to those methods but it sure does sound to me like ya got lube in the powder. Most likely caused by summer heat.

 

[Ian]

The notorious quest for extreme bullet lube and ultimately experiments with thermoset paint were (for me at least) motivated by the storage problem. Not that I've had any particular issues with ammunition stored in a good environment, but the cartridges in the cylinder of the revolver in my vehicle need to work when called upon. I had resorted to carrying only factory-loaded, jacketed bullet ammunition in my vehicles until finally finding a lube formula that wouldn't melt in the extreme heat here. Powder coating solves the problem completely....as long as it doesn't soak the nitro out of the powder

I don't think it's the VV powder deteriorating, but a marginal load being pushed outside it's happy zone by temperature as Spindrift was saying. Another thing that can bite you and has bitten me many times is alloy aging out over time and getting harder, growing larger, or both. If the load is a fine balance, a couple more BHN points or a half-thousandth more bullet diameter can ruin it in a few months while the ammo sits quietly on a cool shelf.

 

[fiver]

remember the E-lube fiasco when I took them down to Nevada?
they went from consistent under 1" solid performers to barely staying on paper when the temps got up to the 90's.

I have also seen old ammo have neck tension problems, and in some cases [norma] every case split the neck in previously unfired cases just from age [not 6 months but more like 20 years]
I have also seen old ammo kind of fuse the bullet jacket and the case together, I assumed it was from zinc migration, or from a constant vibration causing electrolysis [woo-hoo spelled it right first try] and I have fired ammo from ww-1 with no problems [but had no baseline to judge previous accuracy]

 

[358156 hp]

Your alloy could be an issue as well. Bullets continue to age harden with time. 3 months could have taken you out of a sweet spot in your selected load development. I see that you normally shoot your ammo up within a few days.

 

[flint4570]

About two weeks ago I found some ammo I had loaded in 1992 cast loads in .45acp and some in .45 auto rim all shot fine with good accuracy no problems and they were in my garage witch can get pretty warm.

 

[Cherokee]

flint - I'm not surprised.