Finally got a .40
- Thread starter Pistolero
- Start date
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freebullet
Guest
Industries for everything people might be willing to spend money on. Some are worth a look, some not so much.
Lots of finger nail spas around, never been in one myself. Perfection doesn't need fixed.
Lots of finger nail spas around, never been in one myself. Perfection doesn't need fixed.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I have my Commander back on my side today.
By far my favorite is the 1911, and I have no use for the ubiquitous Glock, it just doesn't work for me. 45ACP is my first choice, too.
The Browning HP is another great one, but the 9mm is a bit wanting, although if it was all I had ....
Most other SD handguns are at best OK. Various degrees of attempts
to solve a problem which was pretty much solved by JMB in 1910.
So far, the M&P seems to be a competent tool, but not anything that one can get attached to. No more wonderful than a shovel. Competent, much more useable than most, but not too memorable.
By far my favorite is the 1911, and I have no use for the ubiquitous Glock, it just doesn't work for me. 45ACP is my first choice, too.
The Browning HP is another great one, but the 9mm is a bit wanting, although if it was all I had ....
Most other SD handguns are at best OK. Various degrees of attempts
to solve a problem which was pretty much solved by JMB in 1910.
So far, the M&P seems to be a competent tool, but not anything that one can get attached to. No more wonderful than a shovel. Competent, much more useable than most, but not too memorable.
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Ian
Notorious member
Maybe not, but I hope that you and every free person in this country at least knows HOW to use it.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but can't for the life of me figure out WHY I would use one. 
I do, very carefully, to be fair, tell all my students that Glocks are well made, reliable handguns. I will
say "I do not like their ergonomics, for me, but if they are suitable for you, they can be a good,
quality, choice." OTOH, I recommend that they do not get Taurus handguns, too many cases that
I am aware of where they have too many serious quality problems to be trusted.
Happy to share my preferences, but I do not try to unfairly slam what is certainly a design which works
and is preferred by many. And I do not "push" the 1911 design, it is offered as one of the choices
that they can try out during a class, along with others. At one time I considered getting a G17 as
a training tool....but I am not doing that many courses any more and it really isn't necessary.
In some bizarre emergency situation, if all I had access to was a Glock, I'd be confident that I was
well armed.....even if I was irritated at the grip angle, trigger......
Bill
I do, very carefully, to be fair, tell all my students that Glocks are well made, reliable handguns. I will
say "I do not like their ergonomics, for me, but if they are suitable for you, they can be a good,
quality, choice." OTOH, I recommend that they do not get Taurus handguns, too many cases that
I am aware of where they have too many serious quality problems to be trusted.
Happy to share my preferences, but I do not try to unfairly slam what is certainly a design which works
and is preferred by many. And I do not "push" the 1911 design, it is offered as one of the choices
that they can try out during a class, along with others. At one time I considered getting a G17 as
a training tool....but I am not doing that many courses any more and it really isn't necessary.
In some bizarre emergency situation, if all I had access to was a Glock, I'd be confident that I was
well armed.....even if I was irritated at the grip angle, trigger......
Bill
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
All of this "Commander" talk stirs my memories.
Late 1980s timeframe here.....gunshop in Hesperia, CA had a steel-frame Commander for $600......in 30 Luger. I didn't snag it, and I darn sure should have. 9mm Commander barrels were just up the highway in 29 Palms (Bar-Sto), and I knew that at the time. Still, I balked at the price. DUMB. Experience--what you get when you don't get what you want. Mistakes made + What you learned from making them = Experience.
I would love to have a Commander in 45 ACP. Goodness knows I have a ton of pistols on hand that fit the "Commander" format--Glock 22, CZ-75, SIG P-220 and -226, Ruger P-89X.......with swap 30 Luger barrel and recoil spring. One more wouldn't hurt at all.
Late 1980s timeframe here.....gunshop in Hesperia, CA had a steel-frame Commander for $600......in 30 Luger. I didn't snag it, and I darn sure should have. 9mm Commander barrels were just up the highway in 29 Palms (Bar-Sto), and I knew that at the time. Still, I balked at the price. DUMB. Experience--what you get when you don't get what you want. Mistakes made + What you learned from making them = Experience.
I would love to have a Commander in 45 ACP. Goodness knows I have a ton of pistols on hand that fit the "Commander" format--Glock 22, CZ-75, SIG P-220 and -226, Ruger P-89X.......with swap 30 Luger barrel and recoil spring. One more wouldn't hurt at all.
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
.30 Luger Commander.....now THAT has to be a real rarie. Do you think it was a factory
job? But a 9mm Commander - my first thought is "why?" If I wanted a 9mm JMB
single action, I'd take a BHP over the 1911 Commander. But, if you are a solid 1911 guy
and just have to have a 9mm, whatever floats your boat.
My Sig P5/225 9mm is pretty much the same size as a Commander. Reliable, but the
trigger took some training up to.
The LW SS Commander is my flavor of choice. Rust is real and the SS and aluminum
frame do well with sweat and some humidity around here, although Fla is a LOT more
humid.
Bill
job? But a 9mm Commander - my first thought is "why?" If I wanted a 9mm JMB
single action, I'd take a BHP over the 1911 Commander. But, if you are a solid 1911 guy
and just have to have a 9mm, whatever floats your boat.
My Sig P5/225 9mm is pretty much the same size as a Commander. Reliable, but the
trigger took some training up to.
The LW SS Commander is my flavor of choice. Rust is real and the SS and aluminum
frame do well with sweat and some humidity around here, although Fla is a LOT more
humid.
Bill
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
It was NIB, yellow tag on yellow thread through trigger guard and marked "Combat Commander" atop "30 Luger" on the slide flat/left side. Pretty sure it was a Series 70, and was in satin nickel. That one haunts me. UBER-DUMB to "pass" on it.
I think it better to start a new thread before we launch into the swap-barrel subject matter in a thread concerned with the 40 S&W. Freq drift to 357 SIG might be OK, but 30 Luger/9mm is quite a reach. See y'all over there.
I think it better to start a new thread before we launch into the swap-barrel subject matter in a thread concerned with the 40 S&W. Freq drift to 357 SIG might be OK, but 30 Luger/9mm is quite a reach. See y'all over there.
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Your post (#71) prompted a little Google-Fu this evening. The examples are not unheard-of, and there are a few references to Series 70 Combat Commanders being made by Colt in small numbers and exportation to Europe. I gleaned these factoids from bulletin boards dealing with Coltiana and 1911 enthusiasm. I can't vouch for the veracities, but most of the info had the ring of truth to it. It would not be a complex problem to cobble up a barrel in 30 Luger to fit a 9mm Colt-pattern autopistol--if one was so inclined. I almost pushed the button on a Glock 17 or 19/3rd Gen earlier today, just to 1) Cheese off Cal-DOJ and 2) justify the purchase of a Bar-Sto swap barrel to fit it. I have likely shot 10-12 30 Luger rounds from the present Ruger P-89X for every 9mm round I have sent downrange. I am still messing around with this concept a bit--a 9mm 1911-series of some sort might also get the nod here, with some of the same add-ons being contemplated.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I have seen and handled two BHPs in 30 Luger. Both were made for the European market per their owners; I did not ask how they happened to arrive in the USA, and I saw the 2 pistols a couple years apart. I don't think the owners know one another, though both are retired servicemen from different branches (USN and USAF). Both pistols were fired examples, one quite extensively and its owner is a reloader but not a bullet caster. He likes the Hornady 93 grain semi-custom FMJ/RN and JSP bullets atop 4.2-4.5 grains of WW-231, which he says shoot right to the fixed sights at 25 and 50 yards. He is a capable handgunner. He also has BHPs in 9mm and 40 S&W; his view is that the 9mm is a fine chambering for the BHP but that the 40 S&W might be a bit much for the platform, and his top-end loads for that pistol are in the "180 grain @ 950 FPS" flavor. His view is that running pistols a lot but without battering them is good practice, a view I can't criticize. He has made a few overtures toward the Ruger P-89X, primed with healthy cash incentives. He wouldn't trade straight across for the BHP x 30, but rolled the idea of my Ruger for his Benelli M-76 in 30 Luger around for a while.
The 30 Luger is a lot more popular overseas than it is in North America. A 90-95 grain expanding 30 caliber bullet starting at 1150-1250 FPS certainly won't do a 2-legged recipient much good at all, but given that most of the people we end up shooting are at bad-breath distance--armed in some manner--and propelled by some sort of racing fuel......light-tackle angling philosophy doesn't translate well to exchanges of finality. To me, the 30 Luger is a 'toy gun'--for shooting paper, small game & varmints, and targets of opportunity that don't have sharp teeth, claws, or Glocks. It is a flat-shooting, reasonably accurate field pistol that deserves a lot more shooting than it gets in this country.
The 30 Luger is a lot more popular overseas than it is in North America. A 90-95 grain expanding 30 caliber bullet starting at 1150-1250 FPS certainly won't do a 2-legged recipient much good at all, but given that most of the people we end up shooting are at bad-breath distance--armed in some manner--and propelled by some sort of racing fuel......light-tackle angling philosophy doesn't translate well to exchanges of finality. To me, the 30 Luger is a 'toy gun'--for shooting paper, small game & varmints, and targets of opportunity that don't have sharp teeth, claws, or Glocks. It is a flat-shooting, reasonably accurate field pistol that deserves a lot more shooting than it gets in this country.
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
"light tackle angling philosophy ......Yeah, doesn't appeal to me at all for serious social work.
The Europeans do seem to be too worried about actually HURTING someone that they might
have to shoot.
My favorite analogy is "use a bigger hammer", although Ruark's "use enough gun" exhortation
is equally valid.
I handled a .40 BHO once, clearly they had to add a good bit of weight to the slide, the side walls
were easily .060-.080 thicker. Never had an opportunity to try one out. In fact, a single magazine
through a Glock .40 (?22?) was my only actual firing of the round myself, prior to this new gun,
although I had worked as an assistant instructor where some students were using .40 Glocks.
Bill
......Yeah, doesn't appeal to me at all for serious social work.The Europeans do seem to be too worried about actually HURTING someone that they might
have to shoot.
My favorite analogy is "use a bigger hammer", although Ruark's "use enough gun" exhortation
is equally valid.
I handled a .40 BHO once, clearly they had to add a good bit of weight to the slide, the side walls
were easily .060-.080 thicker. Never had an opportunity to try one out. In fact, a single magazine
through a Glock .40 (?22?) was my only actual firing of the round myself, prior to this new gun,
although I had worked as an assistant instructor where some students were using .40 Glocks.
Bill
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Actually, in the ones I have heard of, laws are just "no military calibers", where there exist. When the USPSA decided
that "Major 9" was just blowing up too many guns, getting ridiculous and outlawed 9mm Para being used for major
caliber, I commented to a USPSA BoD member at the time, "Well, OK, but somebody will just invent a
"new cartridge, the 9x20" and will make major caliber with that. Yep...they came up with the 9x23,
and some used the existing (IIRC) 9x21 which was used in certain countries in Europe (Italy, I think and
others) to get around the "no military calibers" law. So, my guess was a bit wrong, there was no 9x20, but
there was already a 9x21 that I was unaware of, and the USPSA folks did invent the 9x23 to make Major
caliber in 9mm handguns. Although, it most replaced existing .38 Super guns and were mostly built
on wide body 1911 platforms. Not sure how far the 9x21 went, I don't know anybody personally who
used it, but knew a few that used 9x23. Colt sold 9x23 bbl conversion units for a while.
Both the 9x23 and 9x21 were approximations of the .38 Super with rimless cases, but the 9x23
was loaded to higher pressures, I think.
I don't think there was a particular limit on power, just not using military ammo. I think this may be more
oriented towards insurrectionists using captured gov't ammo to fight the gov't than anything else.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
And actually, in much of Europe the whole concept of armed self defense is nearly illegal,
and certainly carrying a gun for self defense is pretty universally illegal, no exceptions, as far
as I have been able to discern.
Huge restrictions, typically on never using "excessive force".....if you are attacked by a guy with
a knife, using your own knife or a baseball bat might be OK, but shooting him wouldn't be
legal....apparently not sporting.
Bill
that "Major 9" was just blowing up too many guns, getting ridiculous and outlawed 9mm Para being used for major
caliber, I commented to a USPSA BoD member at the time, "Well, OK, but somebody will just invent a
"new cartridge, the 9x20" and will make major caliber with that. Yep...they came up with the 9x23,
and some used the existing (IIRC) 9x21 which was used in certain countries in Europe (Italy, I think and
others) to get around the "no military calibers" law. So, my guess was a bit wrong, there was no 9x20, but
there was already a 9x21 that I was unaware of, and the USPSA folks did invent the 9x23 to make Major
caliber in 9mm handguns. Although, it most replaced existing .38 Super guns and were mostly built
on wide body 1911 platforms. Not sure how far the 9x21 went, I don't know anybody personally who
used it, but knew a few that used 9x23. Colt sold 9x23 bbl conversion units for a while.
Both the 9x23 and 9x21 were approximations of the .38 Super with rimless cases, but the 9x23
was loaded to higher pressures, I think.
I don't think there was a particular limit on power, just not using military ammo. I think this may be more
oriented towards insurrectionists using captured gov't ammo to fight the gov't than anything else.
9×21mm - Wikipedia
9×23mm Winchester - Wikipedia
And actually, in much of Europe the whole concept of armed self defense is nearly illegal,
and certainly carrying a gun for self defense is pretty universally illegal, no exceptions, as far
as I have been able to discern.
Huge restrictions, typically on never using "excessive force".....if you are attacked by a guy with
a knife, using your own knife or a baseball bat might be OK, but shooting him wouldn't be
legal....apparently not sporting.
Bill
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The 30 Luger/BHP slide didn't look much different from a 9mm's slide, but its recoil spring is thinner wire/less tension per the reloading owner. I don't see why a 9mm BHP barrel couldn't be fit to the frame, and an OEM 9mm recoil spring swapped in. The guy already had 9mms in the safe, though, so no real point to the matter for him.
Bar-Sto has semi-fit 30 Luger barrels for the Glock 34 (5.32" barrel target model/adj sights/9mm) in stock, thinking hard about snagging one of each here.
Bar-Sto has semi-fit 30 Luger barrels for the Glock 34 (5.32" barrel target model/adj sights/9mm) in stock, thinking hard about snagging one of each here.