burbank.jung
Active Member
I plan to buy gas checks. Which is better: Pat Marlin, Sage, Hornady, Lyman? Thanks
Gas Check review
- Thread starter burbank.jung
- Start date
burbank.jung
Active Member
Aluminum vs copper?
I've only used Hornady (preferred, until they started using copper-plated gold), Lyman, or my own aluminum checks made on Freechex III tooling for the 22s, 30s and 35s.
At the time, the investment seemed sound, as conveniently slitted coil stock was available at a very reasonable rate. That source seems to have dried up, but at least I have a bunch of what I need. It's more work, but I don't run out of checks and I use fewer and fewer checks as the years pass. I've removed the gas check rebate from several moulds and have had excellent results with tumble lube and a limited amount of PC.
I suppose if we're allowing ourselves to be violated as we are on primers and powder, what's another finger? Honestly, I bought the tooling more out of principle than price, but it ha allowed me to experiment with different thicknesses of material to accommodate the errant mould or two with a fat gas check rebate.
At the time, the investment seemed sound, as conveniently slitted coil stock was available at a very reasonable rate. That source seems to have dried up, but at least I have a bunch of what I need. It's more work, but I don't run out of checks and I use fewer and fewer checks as the years pass. I've removed the gas check rebate from several moulds and have had excellent results with tumble lube and a limited amount of PC.
I suppose if we're allowing ourselves to be violated as we are on primers and powder, what's another finger? Honestly, I bought the tooling more out of principle than price, but it ha allowed me to experiment with different thicknesses of material to accommodate the errant mould or two with a fat gas check rebate.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Several years ago......like 10 maybe , several fellows did community and individual testing of gas checks .
The community tests involved something like 5 calibers Pat Marlin , lathe , and drill press made tools with aluminum and copper checks . They sent like 100 of each that each made to each of the other testers . At the end of it it was decided that with due care and detail attention to the tool finish that 6.5,7 mm 30,32/8mm and 35/9mm checks could be produced by that means of equal quality and shoot equally well in several arms .
Individual tests by at least 3 members used 3-5 cartridges/cal and at least 50 each with aluminum vs copper . The end results were a lot of squawking about AlO² and grinding wheels with at least 1 tester giving a slight edge to the aluminum checks .
I have some Lyman copper checks in thumb flap boxes like the 22 LR boxes but plain brown and hand stamped . I have both Lyman and Hornady copper in the perf metal reenforced flip lid boxes and some 2016 Hornady fancy print and ziplock baggies . I also have a bunch of Sages aluminum checks circa 2014-19 .
I don't know how old some of these are , but I have copper in 22,25,26,27&32 cal and aluminum in 27,28,30,32,35,&45 cal .
I haven't seen any significant difference in applying them across vintage, or mat'l but I also have had very little opportunity to run a bunch of 6.5,27,28 caliber side by each . When it's the 6.8 I'm not terribly interested in the 264WM and the 275 Rigby's have caused a significant although temporary I'm sure loss of interest in the 6.8 and 264 .
To date and knowledge I've only lost checks on the 358 Winchester of aluminum. I've never used copper there so I can't say if it is a mat'l , chamber , or idiot operator issue . 2 checks in 500 however is hardly a trend much less a conclusion.
Having been the guy that explored smokeless paper patch to avoid buying gas checks, with no regrets, I can confidently say do the checks . I wouldn't trade the knowledge, skills , or the ability to get an odd sized otherwise junk barrel shooting but my stars checks are sooo much easier and faster to get results with .
Condensed version based on ownself experiences and written word , if it's a high value occasion use the Gator checks just to eliminate 3 variables and/or steps . If it's important but not the end of the world if you lose a check and the shot goes 2" out at 100 yd aluminum will get it done but copper has the edge . If it's just fun on the range Cu vs Al is just a cost decision and it's a big savings to go Al . It takes 10-15,000 checks in a single caliber to pay for the tool if you buy it for copper checks . If you're a diehard XX cal and feed 4-5 arms and or cartridges and burn through 100 weights of alloy then it's probably a good tool to buy . Even 5,000 checks for me in 223 or 27cal are going to last a long , long time and realistically the 20,000 or so in 14 calibers are probably going to out live me .
If having total control of QC and self sufficiency are the goal the buy/make the tools in all of your preferred calibers .
The community tests involved something like 5 calibers Pat Marlin , lathe , and drill press made tools with aluminum and copper checks . They sent like 100 of each that each made to each of the other testers . At the end of it it was decided that with due care and detail attention to the tool finish that 6.5,7 mm 30,32/8mm and 35/9mm checks could be produced by that means of equal quality and shoot equally well in several arms .
Individual tests by at least 3 members used 3-5 cartridges/cal and at least 50 each with aluminum vs copper . The end results were a lot of squawking about AlO² and grinding wheels with at least 1 tester giving a slight edge to the aluminum checks .
I have some Lyman copper checks in thumb flap boxes like the 22 LR boxes but plain brown and hand stamped . I have both Lyman and Hornady copper in the perf metal reenforced flip lid boxes and some 2016 Hornady fancy print and ziplock baggies . I also have a bunch of Sages aluminum checks circa 2014-19 .
I don't know how old some of these are , but I have copper in 22,25,26,27&32 cal and aluminum in 27,28,30,32,35,&45 cal .
I haven't seen any significant difference in applying them across vintage, or mat'l but I also have had very little opportunity to run a bunch of 6.5,27,28 caliber side by each . When it's the 6.8 I'm not terribly interested in the 264WM and the 275 Rigby's have caused a significant although temporary I'm sure loss of interest in the 6.8 and 264 .
To date and knowledge I've only lost checks on the 358 Winchester of aluminum. I've never used copper there so I can't say if it is a mat'l , chamber , or idiot operator issue . 2 checks in 500 however is hardly a trend much less a conclusion.
Having been the guy that explored smokeless paper patch to avoid buying gas checks, with no regrets, I can confidently say do the checks . I wouldn't trade the knowledge, skills , or the ability to get an odd sized otherwise junk barrel shooting but my stars checks are sooo much easier and faster to get results with .
Condensed version based on ownself experiences and written word , if it's a high value occasion use the Gator checks just to eliminate 3 variables and/or steps . If it's important but not the end of the world if you lose a check and the shot goes 2" out at 100 yd aluminum will get it done but copper has the edge . If it's just fun on the range Cu vs Al is just a cost decision and it's a big savings to go Al . It takes 10-15,000 checks in a single caliber to pay for the tool if you buy it for copper checks . If you're a diehard XX cal and feed 4-5 arms and or cartridges and burn through 100 weights of alloy then it's probably a good tool to buy . Even 5,000 checks for me in 223 or 27cal are going to last a long , long time and realistically the 20,000 or so in 14 calibers are probably going to out live me .
If having total control of QC and self sufficiency are the goal the buy/make the tools in all of your preferred calibers .
harrympope
Active Member
I've used .30 checks made ftom Pat Marlin and the single stroke ones with .014 aluminum. They seemed to work fine on bullets sized no bigger than about .310.Much larger they didn't seem to hold on well and I'd get flyers I'm assuming from them coming off.I prefer Hornady over Gator if buying them.YMMV,just my opinion.
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Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
don't buy a NOE mold then. I've had more problems with checks not fitting with his molds than any other.
I like Sages and Gators. Lyman checks are now made by Hornady is the word I have heard.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Nothing has made my gas checking life easier than getting a gas check flaring die that I mounted in a small Dake 1/2 ton arbor press. Just piddling around I flared every .30 cal check I owned in just a couple of days, thousands of the little rascals.
Then I put my to be checked bullet nose first in a Star and just set the check on the base. I self centers, gets push on straight with the pusher and "ironed" on going through the .311" sizing die. I try to pick off the aluminum ones with a finger nail and they don'y come off. I like Hornady with the locking burr the best but I get a little off put by 4¢ a piece just for the check.
But it is not just the cost involved that makes a check maker desirable. It is that feeling of control, real or imagined that I enjoy.
If I was 1/10th as talented and knowledgeable as Ian I'd be making my own powder and flints and feel nigh onto invulnerable. I just find the powder making adventure daunting.
Then I put my to be checked bullet nose first in a Star and just set the check on the base. I self centers, gets push on straight with the pusher and "ironed" on going through the .311" sizing die. I try to pick off the aluminum ones with a finger nail and they don'y come off. I like Hornady with the locking burr the best but I get a little off put by 4¢ a piece just for the check.
But it is not just the cost involved that makes a check maker desirable. It is that feeling of control, real or imagined that I enjoy.
If I was 1/10th as talented and knowledgeable as Ian I'd be making my own powder and flints and feel nigh onto invulnerable. I just find the powder making adventure daunting.
The only ones I can speak too are hornady and sage checks. I have seen 0 difference in accuracy between the 2. sage makes a nice check and they are a small family owned operation, and their checks are at an affordable price compared to Lyman and Hornady. Only use copper, never had a need for aluminum.
A recurring conundrum when my life was less simple - need/want to load something and am shy on one of the components. After a while, I realized that I was shy on one component or another on most stuff I had, to include the guns. 99% complete projects - need a front sight for this one, scope bases for that one. Another one still needs a trigger, etc. Always had one or two guns, along with associated reloading components which were up to snuff, so I got rid of the rest of it and keep a FEW up to speed much more easily.
Adding t he gas check tooling removes the possibility of picking up an empty jar of gas checks, ordering and waiting, or worse - finding them out of stock everywhere, even IF I were willing to subjugate myself to the being violated part when it comes to to pay. Supply chains be damned!
And now... I hardly used the danged things.
Not that this is the "right way" for everyone and no condemnation on someone having one of everything or something for everything. Everyone has a way that works for them - this is mine. Like I said, I got the tooling more as a matter of principle than price, but being in control of supply is a much-appreciated bonus.
That's funny, Tomme. This was one of the advantages to having the check-makers - I could mess around with thicknesses to accommodate a given mould. I think I only have four (?) NOE moulds and I love them, but it was a couple of these which opened that door. The guy I was buying coil stock from worked with me and sent samples of varying thicknesses to try so I could order a quantity of the right one for this mould or that.
Charles Darnall worked with me on one and ended up making me an extra madrel for my 35 cal check-maker too. We talked on the phone, he hung up and called back 30 minutes or so later. He'd gone out to his shop and whipped up a second mandrel so I could make 35 cal 'checks for different moulds, but using the same thickness of stock. Would not take any extra money for the extra work either.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I have a boatload of Hornady checks that I purchased ages ago and I thought they were expensive then. I have some Gator checks I bought from Sage, and they all work well for me. I do have one of Brads original gas check expanders and it does everything I need for oversized gas check steps on some bullets. I have lightly reamed (sanded actually) undersized steps but I often just plop a PC powder coated bullet into a clean check and heat cure them together which works well for me as well. I do my sizing after they're cured. I've never had one come off.
I just bought out another casters supply of checks so I'm probably set for the next decade of so.
I just bought out another casters supply of checks so I'm probably set for the next decade of so.
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JonB
Halcyon member
Of my many NOE molds I've had, GC shanks have been pretty good...UNTIL, I bought his 6.5 molds. I bought all four designs that he offered over a one year period, that was about a decade ago. Two were alike and two were different from each other as well as different from the first two. But, I was ordering fat molds (.270"), so I suppose the GC shank rules change when the bullet is .005" larger. The one mold of those, that my gun liked, I kept and flipped the rest...But, I never really found a great fitting GC for it...and I had two different makers make me a bunch of samples with different dies and different materials. Then just three months ago, I ordered a custom GC maker from Canada...makes the perfect GC for that mold.
BFB Machine Works
bfbmachineworks.com
I make a long post about it, with photos. I'm sure you seen it, but I mention it for anyone else reading this.
Custom GC maker fit's reloading press, by BFB Machine Works in Calgary, AB, CA
a few weeks back fiver mentions BFB. https://bfbmachineworks.com/bfb-about/ Their website says they can make a Gas Check Maker die to produce a gas check to commercial specifications, however, you have the ability to choose the material thickness that provides the best fit for your particular...
www.artfulbullet.com
Does anyone know who makes a deeper 35 cal. gas check than Hornady. I check 30 & 35 cal. The 30 cal. checks go all the way to the driving band. The 35s don't, there is about a .030 gap even though GC shanks are same length on both bullets. The 35 GCs are not as deep as the 30s. I don't understand why they do this. I tried looking up depth of different GCs with no luck.
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