Getting the Old Warhorse to shoot cast bullets accurately

[JWFilips]

I have always felt that any old military warhorse rife can be made to shoot well and reach target accuracy! You just have to understand their life on the front and adapt your thinking to what they are now not what they were when issued! Mud and grit of the front line may make a 8 mm Mauser in to something larger! Bad quality ammunition can really mess up a bore and throat. Most times most of the wear is seen in the throat and upwards up a few inches forward ; after that the bore may be quite good ! this may mean it is really no longer a 7mm x 57 or an 8 mm x 57 even if that what the muzzle may say! The caliber they are now are what the Throat and Lead tell you. An accurate pound cast is a must!

We are very fortunate today have at are disposal Powder Coating! With this you can enlarge a standard size bullet to possibly fit the new throat specs!. Alternately you may need to select the next size caliber mould and size down to the adjusted throat size. Still I find that PC coating works well here too! Size down the cast bullet of the larger caliber to what you need for the throat in question..... PC coat and then size again. The PC coating is very tough. Seldom would you see any leading after this.

Now another issue....you need new expander dies not to mention you may find that loading these larger ( but properly sized bullets) in to standard cases many times means turning the case necks to a point so the lager bullet and the walls of the case after seating these bullets still fit the chamber! I find most time turning is a must!

Also worn throats mean longer seated bullets! I like for my cast bullets to touch the lands before working up my loads. You may have to forget about using the magazine in the rifle! I usual shoot all my mil surps single shot.....remember the Mausers need the rim of the case set down into the magazine so the bolt pick up is in control feed....otherwise you will be stressing the extractors.

Jim

 

[Bad Ass Wallace]

JW,
What you say is true, in fact most milsurp rifles have deeper rifling that their sporting cousins.

I work with 7mm Mauser, an FN Mauser which shoots very well with the RCBS silouhette bullet

Even the old SMLE can shoot some very good groups. Mine are dated 1900, 1901, 1902

 

[CZ93X62]

I have a BSA 1918 No. 1 Mk III that has a .3155" throat. I had a Lee Custom mould made to cast at .3165", a semi-spitzer bore-rider design with .305" front half. It shoots creditable groups in spite of its lackluster bore condition. 16.0 grains of 2400 will stay inside 2" at 100 yards, sometimes well under 2".

 

[Charles Graff]

I hold fast to the notion that any rifle can be made to shoot cast bullets with the same level of accuracy that it shoots jacketed loads. Any run of the mill mil-surp can shoot with target accuracy? I am not signing onto that....at least not yet and at 77 that means probably not ever.

 

[CZ93X62]

Given the SMLE's dimensions, I haven't messed with jacketed fare very much. I started out with R-P "generic" Ball ammo (IIRC), 60 rounds of same. I assure you, its j-word FMJs did not impress downrange. Nicely enough, they didn't cartwheel or install themselves in the target paper sideways--I would call the dispersal about "Full Choke At 20 Yards"-class. The castings shoot A WHOLE LOT better.

Another milsurp in the safe is my 1944-made G-98/40 Mountain Carbine. "Carbine" and "600mm barrel length" (23.6") aren't often linked descriptively, but there it is there. Tell ya what, though--this old warhorse can flat-out SHOOT. Bore is in decent shape, no trumpet-muzzle--headspace is great--throat is .324" into .323" + a few tenths. 150 grain Hornady SPs got right where the barley-corns point at 100 and 200 yards, and 2.0 MOA or a bit less is do-able if the Nut Behind The Stock steers things correctly and stays torqued to the correct specs. This rifle proves Charles' point well--it can stack Lee 175 castings right on top of one another at 50 and 100 yards with 16.0 grains of 2400 prompting it along, and sized at .325". 300m setting for 50 yards, 500m setting for 100 yards. It has won its share of Burrito Matches among that company of miscreants that infested the event. With the differing barrel time and recoil, cast bullets hit a few mils left of the jacketed strikes. Kentucky windage for the win(s).

 

[KHornet]

Good post JW, and while I have yet to try PC bullets in my
milsurps, may sometime break traditions and give it a go.
That said, have not been doing much rifle shooting in the
past 4-5months mostly due to lousy range conditions weather
wise. However I do have access to an indoor 50 yd range, and
will start using in in the near future. I agree with most of the
comments made on this thread. My favorite mil surps are my
two Sweds, both over 100 yrs old. Bet I will get some off looks
and comments when I bring them to the indoor range.

Paul

 

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My Swedish 'milsurp' is a Husqvarna 1874 rolling block in 12.7x44mm, an absolute gem. For a rifle that is 145 years old, I was happy to pay a premium for a classic in near mint condition. I make brass from 348 Win cases and although a little small on the rim, still extracts a fired case.

 

[JWFilips]

Paul,
Thanks! The thing I wanted to stess is even if everyone tells you to trash the old Girl or put a new barrel on her ....it isn't necessary!
It Just needs TLC and an understanding of the way she is now!

For instance I have a Mauser 98 from WWII It is a JP SAUER UND SON
Research tells me that Hitler commissioned them to make 98's for his elite troops!
By no means do I care for the main man involved but I know Sauer would not let his Fatherland down! They cut the rifling special The Receivers were color case hardened! It is full of Nazi stampings.... all I got was 'just put on a new 98 barrel"!
Well know way!
Well I happeded to find a friend over there! Larry Miller "Largom" he walked me through Firelapping the bore!
Well I now have a .333" mauser but with sized down .338 bullets it be came a tack driver! And it is still as issued except it wears a scope!

 

[Brad]

I still can’t help but expect a photo of each of you with you wife out shooting based on the thread title.
Nothing like getting the old warhorse out to the range

 

[JWFilips]

Sorry Brad! .... My wife loves to go to the range with her Model 32 SW Terrier 38 S&W ! I still have not got her to be convinced to venture out early in the AM to get one of the 2 seats at our 50 yd range!
My Buddy Ed and I have that cornered >>>>>> range opens at 8 am but we are there at 6:30 am set up and walk the berms for lead! Most of the range guys know not to attempt the 50 on the weekends until 9 am! They let those two old grey beard coots shoot cast from 8 am until 9 am!

 

[Bill]

I shoot in milsurp matches every month, any where between 15 and 25 shooters, there are two guy shooting 03a3s and they always shoot 298s or 300 with 20 or 25Xs the 10 ring is 2.5 in and the X ring is .75 in, also a guy with an argintine does it also as well as one guy with a finn, not to mention a couple of swedes
this is as issued with iron sights, if that's not target accuracy I don't know what is

Bill

 

[Ian]

Larry's a good fellow, traded brass with him years ago and as a matter of fact was using some of it on Father's Day in my old Savage and was trying to recall his name, thanks for the joggle.

 

[Bad Ass Wallace]

JW, what you say is so very true! Every rifle, and I mean every rifle has it's very own pecularieties that make it shoot well. I keep copious notes on what works and what does not.
In the 32/40, I have one rifle that uses .321" bullets, and another that uses .323". There seems that Australia shipped all it's Martini Cadets with oversized bores to America because despite owning 8 of them, I can't find one that uses .325" heeled bullets.

We are very limited in what gear is available here in Australia with import restrictions limiting almost everything, except bullet moulds.

 

[Reloader762]

My old M91/30 made in 1933 shoots cast really well so much so I don't even bother buying any jacketed bullets.

The Lee .312" 185 gr. RN want even touch the leads loaded out as far as I feel safe loading it but it still shoots well.

The Accurate .314" 215 gr. FP Tommy Boy had Tom over at accurate cut for him that I bought later on fits the throat of my 91/30 very nice and shoots exceptionally well.

 

[KHornet]

Nice!

Paul