"high antimony" magnum bird shot

ChestnutLouie

Active Member
I was able to buy a 40 lb bag of bird shot for a low price and even though its not what I need for skeet shooting I figured that I could use it for bullet casting. Does anyone know what the composition magnum bird shot is?

I have soft lead and some tin to add if need be. It will be used for 38 revolver 800 ~ 900 fps and lever action rifle a little bit faster.

Thanks
Chestnut
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Most of the hard lead birdshot runs about 4%-5% antimony, IIRC. An E-mail to Ballistic Products (specialty shotgun reloading store) might confirm that.
 

david s

Well-Known Member
I cant guarantee that what follows is true but it is something I've been told. I was told long ago that Hard/Magnum bird shot contains a high quantity of arsenic. It supposedly help the shot form nice round spheres when it's dropped from the shot tower. I was told to never use more than 2% in a melt. Again cant say weather that's true or not.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Yep, I think about 4% is right. Will vary a bit depending the manufacturer. Will also contain trace arsenic (As) which if you should quench the alloy will bring the BHN up well above the Sb% hardness. The As is to aid in the shot forming round when dropped but is also a benefit to bullet casters. You said you got it at a low price, good score, good alloy for blending bullet alloys.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I picked up a few 25lb bags some years ago. It had a graphite like coating on it. I was happy that it was melted outdoors because it was a Smokey mess. It worked just fine but I wouldn't want that coating in my casting pot.
 

ChestnutLouie

Active Member
What are the health risks of "trace arsenic"?

typo it was a 25lb bag

I plan to put 12lbs of the shot 2~3oz of tin and about 4lbs of sprews and dud bullets (a 50/50 mix Linotype and soft lead and 1% tin)

With this I will cast 158 grain 38 cal tumble lube, flat point bullets for my Henry Big Boy steel to eat. Not to fast maybe 1200fps.

Thanks
Chestnut
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I shoot plain-based lead SWCs in my Henry steel 357 sized at .358" (Lyman #358477) at 1100-1200 FPS, and they run just fine--accurate and zero leading. Alloy is 92/6/2, which is close to what you will arrive at with the combination you list herein. 1100-1200 FPS is the velocity range that 32/20, 38/40, and 44/40 lever carbines used to get with black-powder ammo in those calibers. Docile recoil and decent accuracy is the rule with these loads IME.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
As with any molten lead alloy ventilation is your friend. Truth is you probably have more to worry over with the Antimony than the As. Both are toxic and there is a lot more Sb in the pot than As. Use ventilation and don't stick your face over the pot and take a deep breath (As or not). Don't over heat the alloy, 700 degrees is plenty hot. I've been handling the stuff for decades with no ill effects. Common sense precautions should always be the rule As or Sb or not.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
There ya go fiver, I have a similar chart somewhere in this computer but derned if I could find it. :rolleyes:
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
arsenic is also found in wheel weights.
they have like 0.25%
shot has a touch more it creates surface tension, however since it isn't tower dropped anymore the amount has been cut.
tower dropped is still done but only by Lawrence and west coast [same company]
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I put it up before, but couldn't remember where I put it sooo?
woulda been faster for me to type it out and I still ain't sure how I got it to post but there it is.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The biggest determinant in shotshell pricing between the cheep August loss-leader "Dove & Quail" loads sold at Wally World and the high-dollar shells (AA, STS, Super-X Field, etc.) is shot quality and hardness. Good shot makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in pattern efficiency--about one degree of choke-constriction's-worth IME.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
exactly.
not only tighter, but also better filled out on the edges.

for example Remington sells three tiers of target shot shells.

1. their gun clubs.
a barely works primer, good rxp type wad and 2% antimony shot. [plus a hull with a tin plated steel head]
the shot size isn't very consistent, and it isn't polished.
found on sale for 5.00 a box pretty frequently.

2. their clay and field line.
they have a better primer, the RXP wad, a brass plated steel head, smooth slick hull, 4% antimony shot.
the shot percentage is closer to the correct size, with a much smaller variance.
about 7$ a box.

3. their STS and nitro shells.
a bit thicker more supple plastic hull with a brass head, STS premier primer [higher brisance, brass anvil and face where the firing pin hits] the figure 8 wad, and shot that is 6% antimony.
the shot is polished and graphite and is very consistent in size.
usually around 8$ a box.

Winchester is about the same.[almost exactly the same]
USA's, universals. [Browning's shells are in this lower category too no matter what they charge]
pretty much junk,, but cheap.
super target. [semi kind of close internally to the AA's]
and their AA's.
same hull scenario's also, the AA has the premier plastic, better wads, shot, and a brass head.

Federal is also about the same except their top end shells have a little over 3% antimony.
they get their shot from Rio BTW.
and was having RIO make many of their loads up until about a year or so back.
their promo pack walmart hulls were just purple Rio's with an 8 point crimp instead of a 6 point crimp only with a bit different hull make-up [thinner more brittle tube and a bit harder steel head] but they both used the much larger Rio primer size [.245 instead of the 241-243 US and cheddite size]
Federals gold medal hulls now have a steel head, and only use 3% antimony shot.
the only ones that still use a brass head is their paper hulls [there is some speculation that won't last much longer]

Estate was also connected to Federal.
their yellow-red boxes were basically the same hulls as the top gun hulls but had a better wad.
these have both changed recently also, the wound paper base wad is gone, and they are using a harder steel brass plated head now same as the promo packs used before.

the white box Estates actually were being imported from France and used a Cheddite hull and primer, they used completely different [upgraded] components than their red/yellow box namesakes.
 
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