just about flipped

[fiver]

while perusing threads here and there I come across a thread posted about quality.
newish caster, and he wanted to powder coat [of course]

so his question went along the lines of.
since I'm gonna powder coat them anyway, why does it matter how they look or if there is a bunch of trash in the alloy which shows up on/in the bullets.
okay....... a pretty valid question from someone fairly new.

so lets take a little time to explain cleaning alloy and some techniques for making good boolits.
right?
umm no,,,, second post after that is, it don't matter the PC will fix all that.
whatthehell??????

doesn't anybody take any pride in their work?
are my priority's that screwed up?
is powder coat that good?
I been throwin all those boolits back all this time, cleaning my alloy, sweating the small stuff, and now i find out all I needed to do was throw some powder on them..

 

[S Mac]

Like putting lipstick on a pig

 

[Ian]

"Kids these days" honestly do not know what good or poor quality really is. PC, and I mean Political Correctness, has taught for several generations now that it is unacceptable to judge something or hold it to a standard. You're supposed to paint by the numbers and accept the result, until there is a major problem, in which case they have no problem-solving or analytical skills to work it out for themselves.

I threw back somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the castings, as they were cast, out of a mould Wednesday. Cost me an extra 1.5 hours sleep, but I wanted rid of that pot of contrary alloy and making 300 BLK range fodder that would be powder coated seemed a good way to use it up. Coated or not, the little Lee bullet needs all the fillout that can be mustered for its weak driving bands. Even frosty edges got culled. Does it matter? I don't know. Further, I'm not going to bother to do a bunch of testing to see how half-assed my system will permit my work to be and still work acceptably.

Bottom line, I have standards and adhere to them, even if I'm the only one to whom it matters. The mistake myself and others often make is to criticize others for not having the same standards, if they are successful in their endeavors. Live and let live. If someone doesn't know how much a quality issue will matter, maybe the best suggestion is to ask them to do some very specific testing and post the results. They might actually learn how to cast a decent bullet through the experience.

 

[Hawk]

I have my own standards that I live by, be it casting, woodworking or interaction with others. They are high standards, but they are mine and I alone have to live up to them and answer for them.
I do not expect others to live by my standards, but I do try to encourage those that I have influence over to set standards that are above average. Usually, you will be happier with the results and yourself.
Pride in yourself and your work is a worth striving for, but alas, a vanishing commodity in todays world.

 

[Brad]

Gee, a bullet with lots of voids filled with polyester. Can you say out of balance boys and girls?

I will admit to shooting some less than perfect handgun bullets at short range but take time to make rifle bullets the best they can be.

Instant gratification. No desire to research the issue and see what the potential downfalls are.

Thankfully it isn't all kids. Mine does pretty well but some of her classmates, yikes. And the ones with the best grades were the worst!

 

[smokeywolf]

If an individual does not hold their castings to a relatively high standard, what else are they letting slide; the condition of their rifle or pistol? Not crazy about the prospect of occupying a bench close to a person who has low standards or expectations for/of his castings or handloads or firearms.
This may sound judgemental and it probably is, but these are the type of people who oft times are sitting or standing at the firing line, fiddling with their firearm during a cease fire.
Same type of people who get load info off an internet forum and don't verify it in at least 2 different manuals.

 

[Brad]

Hadn't thought of it that way Smokey, good point. See are the guys who don't do their homework at all. No basic firearms knowledge, no safe handling knowledge.
Same people who get into home improvement projects and get in over their heads.

 

[RBHarter]

I thought we cast to save money ?

We use lots of things to make up for short comings .
I chose to avoid checks ,I ran a lot of paper too. I learned a lot about pouring, alloy and how powder steps work. I've never been accused of going the easy way to get places . Last year ,10 years into seeking and getting 2000 fps , I seated and sized my 1st gas check .
Cast gives us control over the quality of the bullet.
Cast gives us control over the terminal performance.
Cast gives us control over the availability bullets
Cast gives us control over the volume of our shooting.
Those that are just getting started are doing so to save money when the time is cheap and money is hard .
They read that PC ,HyTek, etc, fixes the need for checks ,lube alloy and can even make up for a mould that isn't quite big enough .


How small should a $5000 custom shoot ?
How small should a $100 Yugo M24 shoot?
$2500 1911 ?
$100 Nagant or Tokarov ?

The guy that coats his imperfect bullets is still happy with 3 or 6-15 in the 7 ring and being able to shoot 100 rd of 223 and 9mm .

There's a fellow on more than 1 forum "if it won't shoot this load or 1 of these other 2 it's a piece of crap dump it" . So if that $214 Axis doesn't no biggie ,just double the money and slap a new bbl on it or swap it for another . Your $5000 Chistianson in Kevlar and carbon fiber it might be worth spending more time , no ?

QC might be the source of problem .
Shooting, hunting and reloading all follow an evolution , how much, how well ,happy to be doing it , polish finesse and sharing all the lore .

Go easy on the rookie ,there's a good chance that each of us at some point had to learn to walk ,run , take pleasure in walking or running and being happy to be able to walk.

 

[KHornet]

The days of quality control for the sake of the quest for perfection in anything today is about gone
for the vast majority of Americans. There are a few, many of whom are on this forum who are the
exceptions, and believe in obtaining the best quality control in casting, reloading, shooting. Think
it started with us shooters when inline muzzle loaders started replacing traditional front stuffers,
and M16's and black rifles started being the norm.

 

[358156 hp]

I'm with fiver.... I'm pretty much speechless. But then again, ignorance often leaves me speechless. Inexperience can usually be overcome.

 

[Brad]

Ignorance often leaves me speechless, inexperience can be overcome.

Man, if that isn't a top 10 quote I don't know what is.

 

[Rick]

The quote is . . . Ignorance is curable - Stupid is forever.

 

[Brad]

Or as Ron White says "You can't fix stupid"

 

[Rick]

Even duct tape can't fix stupid but it does muffle the sound.

 

[fiver]

that was the thing the new guy had enough sense to ask.
I foolishly pointed out that casting the 'core' was the whole deal, even with powder coated bullets.
cleaning his alloy was easy to do and making the boolis as close to the same from the start would pay off on the target.

and then... it just went to hell from that point on.
like the thread name says I just about flipped out on the next several posters.
finally I just decided to just let it go I don't need the aggravation, and if the O.P. cared enough to at least ask he might just take my advice. [I dunno]

 

[KHornet]

The best advice I give a newbee is to get a lyman manual and read the portion before the load data
thoroughly, then read it again, and then wait a couple of days and read it a third time.
And then I advise him/her (whatever) to find a mentor who is willing to have him/her sit thru
a couple of casting/reloading sessions.

As to hiding defects under baked on paint: That is just
plain down right NUTS!







1\

 

[Intheshop]

We see it here,wifey in her world,me in mine.Which are diametrically opposed career paths.

Looking at the situation as the wheels on a locomotive.Is you is,or is you ain't a drive wheel....or are you an idler?Maybe your only concern is steering?

Wifey would start singing the wheels on the bus go,etc right about this pont in the conversation(little PHD education humor).Which while meant as a dig on all things "educated" it also enters into the train wheel example in that...

While some folks are the movers and shakers within a certain realm,fiver is with well,whatever...they can be sidetrackd from that role.Example,"Bill" is generally considered a really good motivational drive wheel,but don't show him the latest new "tire"....he'll buy it even if we just put new ones last week.So we gotta make sure to keep him on the path.

Folks can work within an idea,job,career,etc and take no real interest in it.This is what wifey can't understand about folks in her work.She's a mover that can't get enough brain food,( nuther good joke in that one),staying current with research data.Choosing to wade through and try some stuff.

My world is about crafts and tradition,we are most definitely NOT a bureaucracy.History is our general guide so we don't have the ambiguity that other folks "may" encounter.BUT,I still have to deal with folks too lazy to crack any sort of book,or discussion with the old guys.

To wit,wifey and I look at each other when trying to explain folks not caring....and shrug it as a "who knows".

 

[JonB]

SNIP...

finally I just decided to just let it go I don't need the aggravation, and if the O.P. cared enough to at least ask he might just take my advice. [I dunno]

You planted the seed, some times it takes years to germinate.

I speak from experience. I can be stubborn on learning and/or changing my mind on things...If I happen to really believe a myth, many times, it takes a lot for me to see and understand that myth was wrong.