Need Some Press Wisdom

[Ian]

I called them about the shellholder slot not being milled deeply enough in the ram head piece (it threads onto the ram) and asked them to mail me another one. The fellow said nope, all CNC, can't be out of whack, check your shell holder. I told him it was a LEE shell holder but it made no difference because no brand would go in far enough to center on the ram. He then said ship it to us, I replied fine, send me a UPS label, he said nope, you gotta pay freight, I said no thanks. Fixed it myself with a Dremel and dressed-down abrasive cut off wheel. You buy Lee, you're on your own. That's ok, I've had problems with other tools too (of all kinds) and had rather fix it myself anyway.

 

[462]

Yep, have to occasionally order a bow washer to keep the RCBS JR's handle from falling down, but they're free including shipping. Not long ago had to return a Forster bench rest full length sizing die so they could touch up the finish, but they supplied a shipping label. Hornady made good on a hand primer problem, and Redding did likewise on a seating stem.

All brands have problems, but only Lee employs Shirley. She did have the sharp eye, though, on the .45 ACP taper crimp die I bought recently.

 

[RicinYakima]

It always comes down to: "You get what you pay for."

 

[RicinYakima]

I have avoided this conversation because my issues are not yours. Don't own or want a progressive press. If I load 50 perfect cartridges an hour I am happy.

I use an RCBS Summit single stage, a Harrell's Brothers turret and L. E. Wilson arbor press dies in a Hall press. In the RV I use English hand tools and have never looked back after buying them.

What is the job you have to do? How good of product do you want?

FWIW, Ric

 

[Jeff H]

.....

What is the job you have to do? How good of product do you want?

FWIW, Ric

Speaking specifically on presses, and dies too, I guess, this last sentence is key in my personal rationale for choosing LEE.

I don't disagree about "getting what you pay for," except that there are some things where you sometimes get a little more than you paid for, like the Remington 788, in terms of guns. They weren't expensive, but they were (are) good guns. And they were a little odd, with their, what, nine rear locking lugs. Probably don't see them lined up at benchrest matches, but more accurate than the majority of us can fully exploit.

I see LEE presses and dies like that to the extent that I feel I get more than I paid for - or at least did when I bought mine. And some of LEE's stuff is a little bit odd, at least the original turret press was.

Would I personally get the value of a $300 press with MY shooting? No. Not that I'm terrible, but I don't have room to quibble over a few thousandths at the target, so the "better" press wouldn't necessarily be a good value to me, other than potential durability, but I've been using the same LEE turret press since the early or mid-nineties. I may load 1k rounds a year these days, maybe 2k on a good year, probably 5k/yr the first ten years on that press.

I think the bigger thing - for ME - is that I like certain features regarding LEE presses and dies. I haven't used most of their newer presses, so I can't really say that about them.

Quality it objective. Value can be all over the map, subject to the needs of the user.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

My take on most LEE stuff is very innovative designs. Some great products that FAIL because of Poor quality materials and or manufacturing.
Things like the Classic Cast Single Stage are a solid well built press while there Scale is plastic garbage.

CW

 

[Winelover]

I just installed a spring on the handle to keep it from falling down. Primer catcher, off e-bay. Can't use the ram prime, though................because the ram has to be reversed. No matter, since I prime with the RCBS bench mounted priming tool.

 

[Bret4207]

I called them about the shellholder slot not being milled deeply enough in the ram head piece (it threads onto the ram) and asked them to mail me another one. The fellow said nope, all CNC, can't be out of whack, check your shell holder. I told him it was a LEE shell holder but it made no difference because no brand would go in far enough to center on the ram. He then said ship it to us, I replied fine, send me a UPS label, he said nope, you gotta pay freight, I said no thanks. Fixed it myself with a Dremel and dressed-down abrasive cut off wheel. You buy Lee, you're on your own. That's ok, I've had problems with other tools too (of all kinds) and had rather fix it myself anyway.

HAR!!! Yeah, and all it takes is one number being off half a thou someplace to make something else come out .005 shallow! Doesn't matter if it's CNC Mr Lee representative, garbage numbers in still equal garbage on the other end!!!

 

[Bret4207]

Myself, doesn't matter what type of press I was looking for, I'd be searching for a good used example. Lets face it, most presses probably don't get 1500-2500 rounds ever loaded on them. Guys like us are the odd ducks that count rounds produced in the tens of thousands or more. Unless there is a brand new press that has features older ones don't have, I wouldn't be putting the extra $ into new. That $ could go for primers!

 

[Wasalmonslayer]

Well guys a I think I have this question answered.
I was chatting with a buddy last night and a friend of his was going to get into loading and had a bunch of equipment new in box. Well turns out reloading is to much work for him and he is offloading the never opened equipment he bought.
I made him an offer on his lee cast iron single stage press and he took it.
I will pick it up this weekend and get it mounted up.
I will report back once I mount it and get a few pulls of the handle with my impressions.
Thanks a bunch for all your advice!!

 

[Jeff H]

PERFECT SOLUTION!

Regardless of WHICH press was picked, @Bret4207 sort of nailed the preferred situation, wherein one falls into something "used," at something of a discount.

Something of a side-benefit: if it doesn't work out, it wasn't your fault - you did the sensible thing and picked what appeared to be the best of the available options, rather than just having chosen poorly.

 

[Charles Graff]

Thanks guys will look into the different Lee iron press's and see if one will fit my needs.

From the group it sounds like the o press is the way to proceed with or a Lee turret cast press.

Thank you very much for all your time and input!

It takes allot of muscle to strain a C press to a point, that it will impact the loaded ammo. In fact, I doubt it can be done. The O presses came about when folks started to swage jacketed bullets at home. I started with a Pacific Super C and still have one and use it for one off jobs. At one time Pacific made a steel bar that attatched to the front of the press via the auto primer boss on the top and the priming arms at the bottom holes. This in effect turned it into an O press and gave it the strength to swage jacketed bullets. It would be duck soup to make such a gizmo from bar steel.

You could take your wife out to a really good dinner or buy a case of decent whisky with your savings.

Addendum: I have not seated primers on the press for 50 years, so that feature means zero to me. I use a hand primer and I can feel each primer seated. Good exercise for the hands anyway. I also don't decap on the press. I use a Lyman 310 hand tool with the correct depriming die for that chore.

I also use hand dies and a cheapo 1 ton Harbor Freight arbor press for much of my reloading.

 

[CZ93X62]

Two presses at my house--
1) RCBS RockChucker from early 1980s
2) Ponsness-Warren P-200 Metal-Matic, a form of turret press with shell holder on a pivot arm.

I have pondered getting a P-W Metallic II for large rifle cases (up to 375 H&H length), but haven't pulled the trigger on that purchase quite yet.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Charles brings up some excellent points.

A “C” frame press cantilevers the die offset from the main body of the press but the unsupported distance is short and the frame is massive. Any deflection (if any) that is likely to occur in normal reloading operations would be somewhere between incredibly trivial and non-existent. Step up to an “O” frame press and any possible deflection becomes a complete non-issue.

As a group, I would speculate that we tend to get a little extreme in terms of tolerances and requirements. A strong “C” frame press or a half-way decent “O” frame press is likely far more quality than our tasks require.

We have an excellent variety of high quality and yet affordable “O” frame presses to choose from. Some new and many used.

Years ago I ended up with a RCBS Reloader Special 5 press. That is an aluminum “O” frame press. Despite the fact that I had other iron presses available, that inexpensive RCBS press got bolted to the bench for a long time. The reasons are complex and not important here, but I used that press for years before I sold it. It was as tight the day I sold it as the day I got it, and it made great ammo.

I’m with Charles on the issue of priming. When using a single stage press, I generally prime off the press with some hand-held priming tool. I did buy a RCBS Ram Prime kit to act as a back-up in case I broke a hand priming tool but that is sort of like having a spare tire in the trunk. It’s only there in case you have a flat.

 

[RBHarter]

I always figured most reloaders got into it because they either shot a lot and the time spent was less valuable than the money or they had either specialized ammo needs or expensive cartridges to shoot .

As this thread has gone along I'm thinking especially with the last few posts about Dad's tools . In today's market he had many of the "better" tools . When we eliminate cost as a window and objectively look only at the net quality and longevity of the tool the tools he bought have turned out to be , 1-10 scale , 7&8s . To further quantify that a 1 would be a a die that was too soft , came out of the box new with filings left in it and was grossly over or under sized , and after the second trip back was still wrong . I don't believe there is a perfect 10 and if I rate a thing like a size die a 9 with kudos it's because it has actually improved with use and was all but greased glass when I opened the box .

Dad bought a lot of Pacific because gas was 25¢ a gallon and Pacific was 75 miles from the house and the store was open on Saturday. I think the Lyman AA stuff was at least as good 68-72' as anything they put out now . The Herters dies aside from the over fancy aluminum lock rings look almost identical to the 10 yr old CH 32 Rem dies I bought .

I own Redding, Forster , CH, Herters, Hornady, Lee , Lachmiller, Lyman, Pacific , and RCBS dies with presses made or sold by most them . I have not yet had any warranty dealings with any of them .

Add value to the mix , which to me means fit , finish , fidgit , CS , out of box usability, gross longevity vs cost . I'm not a tool snob . I will buy in most cases an RCBS tool over the 25% cost savings of the Lee .......but I did buy the Lee ram prime and will probably replace this spring not because of any particular quirk but because of non tangible feel/visual cues that bother me vs any real flaw .
Redding sent me a seating stem for an acknowledged show die set for an inquiry about stop adjustment.
RCBS sent me refit parts for a die that was made 50 yr before and I only asked what family it belonged to .
Lyman , Lee , and CH make it pretty clear on their sites that if you didn't discover it in the first 100 rounds within 360 days of purchase you own it and the parts may be available for purchase . But again I've never used the warranties . I probably should have for the broken unbreakable decapping pin and definitely for the radial cracked 380 carbide ring in the Lee set that sized about 25 pieces ....... I turned a drill press file decapper with a set screw for a replaceable pin and left it .312 for my needs. The 380 dies found a new home for shipping as I recall with full disclosure.

Bent a few rods in RCBS but it didn't occur to ask about parts as I had a stocking dealer close .

I did talk to them about the slopped out Partner press. I'm on the fence about a 25 yr old press that I'm almost positive is way past it's 150,000 stroke design life I mean the 10,000 45 Colts eats up 40,000 strokes if I primed every single one on a down stroke from size or flare , I don't even want to think about that winter that I prepped 2 20mm cans full of brass just so it would be ready when I was ....... probably another 10-15,000 sized bullets .......
Send it back we'll check it out repair or replace as needed. The design life is 50,000 rounds ........
As of yet I can't see what a $90 set of Redding dies offers that the $45 set of RCBS does on paper the same goes for the Forster Benchrest vs RCBS FL for the 264 WM but I only gave 25$ shipped for the BR sizer , neck die , and in line seater in the Bonanza Forster box and so marked and paid $35 for the RCBS new . The load at hand was just keeps poking space in the nickle sized group so improvement is out of my control .

Lastly Dad didn't load a lot of ammo after about 1977/78' but he lost his best friend and hunting buddy and his Dad about then also. I think maybe in a way he felt like he had perfected his skills and only needed to keep the tarnish off them . We didn't shoot a lot after that .

 

[Jeff H]

Charles brings up some excellent points.

....

Years ago I ended up with a RCBS Reloader Special 5 press. That is an aluminum “O” frame press. Despite the fact that I had other iron presses available, that inexpensive RCBS press got bolted to the bench for a long time. The reasons are complex and not important here, but I used that press for years before I sold it. It was as tight the day I sold it as the day I got it, and it made great ammo.

I’m with Charles on the issue of priming. When using a single stage press, I generally prime off the press with some hand-held priming tool. I did buy a RCBS Ram Prime kit to act as a back-up in case I broke a hand priming tool but that is sort of like having a spare tire in the trunk. It’s only there in case you have a flat.

I was going to mention LEE again, for that same reason, but probably sound like a shill for LEE by now, but their little, lightweight O-press is appropriate, being very scant of mass. Otherwise, a C-Press is no handicap. Lyman also made a little, lightweight aluminum press, what, 30 years ago? I had the RCBS and LEE set up in the gun shop for people to try out. Let them FLR different cases and few were really impressed. Lyman's entry was actually a C-Press and made such that it could be bench-mounted or hand-held. I like these "budget" presses. They're pretty cool.

Ditto on press-priming, really, but is IS why I went to off-press priming; not as convenient and the one press did a horrible job.

 

[richhodg66]

ABout 12 years ago, I found myself as a geographic bachelor at Fort Leavenworth, had a litte over two years to retirement and didn't want to move the family. Anyway, I bought an old PAcific which was made of aluminum and used the old caliber specific rams which an older gentleman I used to talk to at gun shows practically gave me a cigar box full of about three dozen rams, most still with the original tags. I kept a pair of snap ring pliers by the press and got to where I could change one out in less than a minute, it really wasn't that much of an inconvenience.

The nature of the job had me traveling a lot, but when not traveling, I had a lot of nothing to do. Leavenworth is just far enough from home so commuting daily wasn't ractical, so I stayed busy with that little press bolted to a shelf in the basement of the place I was staying.

Traded it off after that situation went away and have regretted it. I have plenty of presses, but I grew kind of fonc of that one, not sure what came over me to trade it off.

 

[porthos]

if you don't get a turret; the 2 best presses' out there are forester co-ax and mec. everything else in a single stage comes in second by far.

 

[richhodg66]

Maybe I'm just too used to "normal" presses,but I have a Forster Co-Ax set up and I just cannot warm to it. Seems awkward as hell to me. Guess I need to make myself use it and see if getting used to it will help, but I'm tinking it'll likely go down the road at some point.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The Forster Co-Ax is an interesting method to force a casing in and out of a die. I'm convinced it is a more complicated way of moving brass in & out of dies, but I'm not convinced it is a better way.