New suppressor idea ......

wquiles

Well-Known Member
This is a work in progress thread. I have no idea if I will build an actual suppressor based on this idea, but for now it is something fun to machine and work with. For the record I "do" have two F1 stamps on hand ;)

The idea comes from the fact that traditional suppressors use baffles which work really well at suppressing the sound, but that create a significant amount of back-pressure on the chamber. This is of course pointless in a bolt gun, but in a semiauto gun, it generally creates an over-gassed system, more wear, but the worst part is all that debris and gas hitting you on the face - even more so if you are a lefty shooter like myself.

True, the OSS and the Flowmax solve this problem very well, but I don't want to spend $1k plus the stamp to get one, when I already have two stamps on hand:
OSS:


Flowmax:
https://youtu.be/S341CDvbY8Q


So I figure I can try making something "similar" to reduce back-pressure on my semi-auto carbine (460 Rowland).

I found this thread with a full CNC design:
Oh man, this is a very neat design made possible with CNC equipment: www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156031&sid=8d97df34d7bf6eb41a3efabec230335c&start=75


Of course I don't have a CNC anything, but I like his general idea of some outer vanes/flow and inner baffles:
yIRmjI8.jpg


WfWWQkS.jpg
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
So I came up with this idea of two rows of "deflectors", but since I can't CNC anything, I am thinking I can stack them and create the desired effect, so I am calling them Stacked Deflectors, or SD's for short.

Call it my patent-pending crazy idea. Who am I kidding - I have no money for a patent, let alone defend one if I had one to defend. This is just another fun project
:)


So here I start machining the SD's:
IMAG0003.jpg


This is a heavy tube (.250" wall !!!) so that I can test the machining operations.


Clean the OD:
IMAG0004.jpg



Get on the dividing head:
IMAG0006.jpg



Re-test that the ) degree mark is fairly close to level:
IMAG0008.jpg


Close enough for me:
IMAG0009.jpg



Mill away ....
IMAG0010.jpg
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
IMAG0014.jpg


I mess up and they are not exactly alike, but these are practice SD's anyway:
IMAG0015.jpg



This is how the milled part looks like before going to the lathe:

IMAG0016.jpg



And then I start parting pieces to make the SD's:
IMAG0017.jpg
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
I got SD's on two width's (.150" and .200" to see how they stack up):
IMAG0018.jpg




And finally, here is my idea/invention for the SD's. Note the SD's allow for air flow, but the sharp edges slow it down somewhat (in theory, of course):

IMAG0019.jpg



Here are the .150" SD's:
IMAG0021.jpg



And here are the .200" SD's:
IMAG0020.jpg




I am thinking that another variation would be to add spacers in between to allow more gas being captured before moving to the next SD. Something to try machining next.

Will
 

Ian

Notorious member
The ST link is blocked, but I get the idea. The OSS turbine muzzle brake is available to buy separately with no stamp and could be the basis for an f1 can....but it's for a reflex design only. I havent seen anyone attempt a free-flow f¹silencer before, this is quite interesting.

By the way, the best way I found to reduce blowback and gas face in a PCC is to build an AR-variant with DI gas system. The DI reduces bolt weight considerably vs blowback and brings felt recoil way down. I'm a lefty too and that dang ejection port is only about 7" from my right ear.
 

Ian

Notorious member
On spacing your deflectors....remember that Venturi taught us that any time flow velocity is decreased, pressure increases, therefore that gas needs to keep moving or you create backpressure. The long path with multiple deflectors essentially acts as a cooling chamber where the labyrinth buys time and surface area to soak up heat.
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
Thanks Ian. Right now my idea/plan is to have two levels of SD's - the outer one feeds to the inner one at one end, reverses direction for the gases (now going back towards the muzzle end), and then dumping into the inner core (which I don't know yet what it will be).

Since I am very "visual", I had to machine these SD props to help me visualize how things might work, while I keep working on the rest of the details.
 
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freebullet

Guest
Top notch machine work. Hope it works & we all learn something.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Sonic 'boom' from a shot is only reduced by reducing the velocity of the gas stream. That is accomplished by changing direction of the stream or stopping it. Baffle systems use a redirector and chamber (accumulator) to capture and spread the 'impulse' out in time (like pressure of a slow powder and causes reverse blow back). The turbine type redirects only a small angle so each 'blade' absorbs a small amount of energy. Gas energy goes down, so does fps. Venturi equations work for the turbine type but baffles do not have laminar flow. Of course the housing must be constructed to avoid 'drum' effect and not break. Seems like the turbine type would need counter vanes to reduce torque with a changing spiral.
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
Question . I know nothing about suppressors and only enough mufflers and airflow within to look like not a complete fool .
I understand that the basic premise is to provide a closed space to slow down the gas and trap it's expansion for bleed off .

For rifles why not an over sized blast chamber , or whatever it's called , back over the barrel . Seems like the large chamber with a couple of radial drilled baffles would work at least as well as the designs I've seen here with the carefully shaped possibly noise cancelling baffles . The drum effect noted makes sense in the shock wave context I guess .

I've seen a bunch of videos and read through the R&D several times and reasoned through the blast chamber behind the muzzle bits and compact and fitting seem to be the only bugs really ....... Of course I might be missing some really vital tid bit .
 

Ian

Notorious member
This concept is "free-flowing", meaning that unlike traditional strip/trap/bleeddown suppressors, this one doesn't really contain the gas flow but lets it pass through a multidirectional labyrinth and find the atmosphere relatively unimpeded. The purpose is to not spit half the splody stuff back the way it came when the action is cycling.
 

wquiles

Well-Known Member
I milled an example of the spacer with the slots to give an "visual" of how gases move between each layer of SD's:
IMAG0031.jpg



IMAG0032.jpg



I used a black marker on this solid Al piece (simulating the monocore) which gives a better idea of the path from the SD's to the monocore. Note that all these are the original SD's I made, which are not alike. However, you can see in this picture that the SD's and even the spacer itself are "configured" for max deflection/obstruction:
IMAG0034.jpg



My first suppressor with this idea will be 45 cal (for my 460 Rowland carbine), so it would be great to hear/get suggestions on a monocore design that could work for my application. Note that my current design calls for a monocore of about 5-6" and that the monocore's OD will be about 1.125", which is not a lot to work with given the large caliber. Any ideas/suggestions?

Will