OK : What is it about "Red Dot"

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Never use fillers with fast powders also never crimp Bullets are set firm in the lands ( I only shoot target and at low to mid 1K velocities)
Haven't seen a position issue. I also only load single shot
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
the rifling jam is pretty much the same as a crimp or high neck tension.
actually it's more.
jamming a bullet will raise initial pressure spikes in some situations about 15K PSI and can add another 100 or so fps.
your not getting no 15K extra and certainly not 100 fps more here with the faster powders but you are seeing a higher [actually faster to the top, not a higher total pressure] initial pressure spike.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
fiver,
I remember you mentioned to me before, a bullet in the lands is similar to a crimp.
On some of my rifles my neck tension is light enough that it automatically sets the col when I put the bullets out extra long. I find this long & automatic seating is one of the most accurate ones for me....probably because of the consistancy
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I've never seen RD be position sensitive, especially in smaller cases like the 30/30. I got thinking about that today.
 

Creeker

Well-Known Member
I would rank Red Dot #1 (Always turns in the best accuracy); American Select #2 ... Runs a very close second to Red Dot !

But Still and all "Red Dot" turns in the most impressive groups at low speeds.
Jim

Again, I love Red Dot though I've never used it per se. I did however purchase 32 pounds of Promo a few years ago & the last couple years have used it in 45 ACP, 38 Special & 9MM. It does an excellent job. I'll be trying it in my 30-06 shortly but it most likely be a bit less than 13 grains.

And JW after your OP I'm even more sure I made the right decision spending 68 bucks a jug for it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
at 68 a jug I would have bought all they had available.
I got 4 jugs of Unique and 2 jugs of bulls-eye right when Obama hit office at 75 a jug and bought the place empty of all their assorted 1 lb containers at 17$ a lb.
it was a new shop that just opened [it might have been their first day] and I cleaned them out of powder and once fired 308/30-06/ 45acp brass their first day.
the wife thought i was nuts and the guy at the counter didn't know what to say when we hauled it all out to the truck.
 

Creeker

Well-Known Member
at 68 a jug I would have bought all they had available.

You made a haul.

I'd have to dig the invoice out to see where it came from but it was on clearance. May have been Natchez or Mid-South. For the loads I use I should get around 50,000 rounds for $272.00 or about two loads per penny. That is if my math is correct.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I didn't even know the place existed.
I was going somewhere else in Blackfoot and made a wrong turn and just happened to see the place as I was making a U-turn.
I pulled over and parked to a chorus of 'where are you going'.
I was like I dunno I just seen that gun store right there.

they had maybe half their stuff sitting on the floor and half of it on the shelf, I just started rummaging through boxes pulling out some pretty good stuff.
the one guy come over and we started talking prices and dickering a little, when I asked about the powder he shot me a price and I said I will take it.
Little girl just got a box and loaded up all he had, I recall spending a bit over 1,000$ that day taking brass, powder some bullets he had, a couple of die sets, some primers, a couple of lever gun sights, and one or two other doo-dads.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I've never even see an 8lbs jug of powder in real life that I can recall!
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Stop by, can show you a few. Hell, I will even gift you an empty one.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they are good for all kinds of things.
holding shot, and well mixing shot, you can cut them into scoops for shaking salt out in the driveway.
you can use them to shake cases around in citric acid water.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I dunno, a pool filled with powder instead of water sounds fun tough.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
You guys are too kind!

So I got thinking about RD and sensitivity, again. I admit my mind is not what it once was in some ways. Age makes memories blurry. So I looked in my reloading book...once I recalled I had one! I can't find any reference to any ignition problems or position sensitivity anywhere. So Jeff (post #39) has what appears to possibly be a position sensitivity issue with 30/30 and 7.62 ( I assumed 308). More I thought about it the more puzzled I get. The old 13 gr RD was may go to load in everything from the 7x57 case size on up. It shot great in anything and everything that was at all cast friendly and didn't have a barrel full of jacket fouling (nothing cast shoots good in a couple of those!). 13 is too hot for the 30/30 IMO, I used 10gr there as it did good with the RCBS 30-180FN. So I'm puzzled. I thought it might be a crimp/neck tension thing but my record book indicates I was confusing RD with 2400 in that respect. So, any ideas for Jeff? And Jeff, what loads were you using?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
one thing to keep in mind is 'the load' was put together before they started cleaning the powder up by adding a bit of nitroglycerin.[2% at first airc]
IMO they also changed the base stock not too long back or at least the final washing process which created the new to the market Promo powder.

almost all powders are position sensitive at certain amounts or in some places in the cartridge.
unique ,2400, universal [is horrible in everything] even the medium and fast side rifle powders will show it and sometimes in spectacular 150+ fps variations.
you can't do a whole lot about it unless your willing to change more than one thing in the load.
like a colder primer and more powder, or the reverse, or adding in more resistance to the gas volume before releasing the pressure [crimp, jam, neck tension] or adding in a filler to make the powder all stay in one place.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Red Dot seems to be much more stable and predictable at high pressure than most other fast flake powders. Titegroup is about the same burn rate as RD at shotgun pressures, but at 25-30KPSI TG shucks the deterrent and reveals its true Dynamite soul and expands at something like 20K fps squared. Unique is another powder which behaves predictably at rifle pressures. The RD lights easily and just powers on through bumps and glitches, making crimp, neck tension jump, lube consistency, and all the other variables and inconsistencies of the system have much less effect on the outcome on the target.

I still find TG and BE preferable to RD in low-speed rifle applications. Just my opinion, though, and difference of opinion is why we still have half a dozen-odd powder companies successfully selling similar but different products.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Fiver, yeah, "The Load" goes back close to 20 years now. I guess things are bound to change. I finally ran out of my stash of late 70's produced Red Dot and went to 16.0 2400 for the alternate "The Load". I just picked up a fresh pound of RD last month. Haven't tried it yet but I'm going to back it off a bit. v

Maybe the newer RD is a different powder and is more position sensitive?