PCC sort of ......

[RBHarter]

Preface to save a few pixels.
Yes I'm aware of the sizing involved .
The object is to replace RF ,and shoot for about 1.2 primers per shot .

I find myself with a couple of low value 410 single shots . Sleeving a barrel is a pretty advanced gunsmithing project ......unless the hole you want to sleeve is already the size you need it to be to put the sleeve in it . Of course there will be more serious measurements taken before this would proceed.

Cost is of course a factor for the major components (read the liner) .
Brownells has a 25-20 liner with a .257 groove and a vague 7/16" drill diameter . That gives me .015-.03 clearance in the chamber and.0275-.03 to remove for the barrel ID . Using ideal standards....... A couple of .454 balls should clear that up . I do know that the muzzle is .386 with the full choke in tact .

I think the breach face will hold as the 25 ACP is about the same rim dia as a 209 primer and the donor is real color case hardened . I don't expect even with the potentially slightly higher pressures it will be a problem.

12-16" or closed breach will make an entirely different rat slayer out of the 25 ACP. Than it is in it's typical palm sized pocket auto .

The second option is a similar deal with a neck down and using what I just realized is a surplus 22 LR barrel .
In this case there's plenty of meat to fill out the chamber and match the bore dia .

In either case a custom or clever adaptation of the ejector will need to be applied although a nail groove would work for a prototype.

So what's the consensus. Line a barrel or continue the mental search ?

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have been waiting (and wanting) for some time for Chazel <sp>. To make a long barrel rifled in 327 for a 410. If it shot well, I sould make it permanent.

But a 25/20 or 32/20 is a far lower pressure alternative. I agree its not a pressure issue. There is a number of "glue" alternatives that are just fine for this application.

Thats a tight full choke!!

I like the idea!!

CW

 

[Ben]

PCC = ????????????

 

[obssd1958]

Pistol Caliber Carbine

 

[Ian]

Pistol Caliber Carbine.

I'd be inclined just to make a short chamber insert and O-ring it into the barrel. 6" would be plenty, could make it 12" or more. Nail groove for extraction, file a relief in the rim of the insert so the ejector doesn't pop out the insert. The open barrel ahead of the insert might quiet it a bit as well, or at least project all the noise forward so the shooter probably wouldn't need hearing protection at all.

 

[4060MAY]

I have converted 8 to date, mostly 30-20 because the barrels I used were 30BR 1-15 or 03 1-10 take offs
12GA barrels are the easiest to use, cut the barrel just in front of the hinge, tap the chamber 7/8-14, cut off the chamber of the 30 cal barrel , thread the barrel 7/8-14, screw together and set the head space, chamber the new barrel
to make it an extractor instead of ejector, the parts might not be available any longer, the stub needs to be drilled for the new actuator, and an extractor needs to be fitted
I have also used take off 03, 30-06 barrel from parade rifles, machined the end to fit the 12GA chamber and glued it in with accraglass, 30-20 again, Kasner copy of Winchester
I also did one in 32 S&W long.

 

[Jeff H]

Watching with great interest.

I just posted (recently) that I am SO tempted to get a Rossi 410 and a 357 barrel liner....

It's a cute, little 4# 410 shotgun for a kid, but I like kid-sized guns and there things are selling for $150. Rossi DID make a few 357s on their small frame, but not for long and they are hard to find.

@CWLONGSHOT , remember Larry, from Oregon ("TrotterLG?"), who used to do frequent stub projects on H&Rs? He took the 300 BLK barrel I had rebored to 357 Mag and recut the rim cut, which would not allow the barrel to close on any of my 357 Mag brass. Nice guy, did nice work, had some fascinating projects going and caused me much "lathe envy."

I love these projects. My Contender Carbine does NOT leave me wanting for anything in a PCC, except that it wasn't cheap and it was all bought. I love the innovative thinking and clever applications done on these projects.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yes absolutely!! Larry was a super guy and made /altered me three barrels!! 32/20, 25/35 & a Maxi. Spoke with him many times.

Then there was George in Texas. He made a few rim cuts for me as well. 30/40 and 307 rim cut from a 308.

Loads of great friends came outta GBO back in the day. Some are gone we are all aging.

Also remember Dinny? We talk almost daily! He is going back to school for gunsmithing after 20+ years in the Army and will be doing re boring and stubs.

CW

 

[300BLK]

First off, .257" liner is too large for the 25acp's .251" groove. Saami spec pressure for 25acp is 25Kpsi, vs 17.5psi for the 38Spl, and I've resorted to RP 7-1/2 primers in my 38Spl rifled chamber adapter because of primer flow into the shotgun firing pin hole.

Track Of The Wolf has lots of different barrel liners including a 10" twist .257 with 1/2" OD.

 

[Jeff H]

Yes absolutely!! Larry was a super guy...

CW

Yes, Larry fixed that barrel for me for free, just because it annoyed him so that someone did that job professionally and charged me money.

Lots of good fellas there - sadly several gone.

Yes, I remember Dinny. Good to see someone there taking up the torch. There were a few good gunsmith/hobby-gunsmiths there - and yes, we are all aging.

 

[RBHarter]

First off, .257" liner is too large for the 25acp's .251" groove. Saami spec pressure for 25acp is 25Kpsi, vs 17.5psi for the 38Spl, and I've resorted to RP 7-1/2 primers in my 38Spl rifled chamber adapter because of primer flow into the shotgun firing pin hole.

Track Of The Wolf has lots of different barrel liners including a 10" twist .257 with 1/2" OD.

With no intent of sauceyness .
I'm aware of the .251/.257 . Several years ago I did some work with bolt thrust/loading and the approved formulas actually give a 12,000 psi 12 ga about 3 times the value of a full bore 06' . It has something to do with with the total area of pressure contact vs the actual application of 50,000 psi being placed on .3²in which is not how the physics works .......I think.
The 22LR , 22 Mag and 25 ACP are only about 1500 psi different and cover 1/3 of the face area of the 410 being only the rim dia of a 209 primer .
Yep the .251 FMJ will probably jump the lands but the liners from most sources run $8-9 per inch with an 8" minimum and Brownells has a .257 for 25-20 listed at 24" for $92 shipped . What do I care even a 70-80 gr 257 bullet is an easy stabilization in even a 12" twist and odds are against me buying any 25 ACP factory that costs more than 45 Colts. I just don't size but enough to keep the lube groove covered. If I get flow ......it's an SPP I have a stock of #41s . I don't foresee 1.2-1.5 gr of Unique, Red Dot , or even Herco with a 50-60 gr bullet taking off on wild excursions . I only want to match the 22 LR with a 50 gr bullet about 1000 fps to knock the snot out of savage cur coke bottle at 50 yd maybe . I can always hog it out to an actual 25-20 .

For about $100 and a few hours of my time it's either a fantastic failure or a pretty cool tinker toy .
If I had the fancy tools I'd already have a Savage Axis in 256 Win rimless and converted a 22 mag pistol and probably a rifle to either a 22/25 ACP or to a 25 ACP revolver and companion rifle . I'd probably have chamber adapters that made a 1917 functionally an N frame 2.7" 25 ACP 6 gun . I get it'd work in a BlackHawk too . But I have a $100 drill press and a few really good files and some old old school skills that have worked out , like knowing I'm in way past where I should be and figuring out how to salvage the train wreck .

You know I never thought about threading a barrel block .

 

[Jeff H]

..... But I have a $100 drill press and a few really good files and some old old school skills that have worked out , like knowing I'm in way past where I should be and figuring out how to salvage the train wreck .
...

You GO, BROTHER!

I love this kind of stuff!

Good for the mind, good for the soul. Not worth the effort if you're just going to be all sensible and practical about everything.

...and I am NOT being facetious.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

I like it

Kind of a porch rifle & way cooler than a 22

 

[Jeff H]

I like it

Kind of a porch rifle & way cooler than a 22

"Porch rifle,..." I like that and don't even know what it means.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

You meen you don't set on yer porch with a rifle & a soda pop in the summertime?
Jeff <<< with a grin