Picking up this old Glock. Questions about casting- loading for it.

Loren

Member
.... I've owned 7 or 8, and have >200k rounds through Glocks. I gave them a fair try, don't like them, and got rid of them.....

I asked him how many rounds he had fired through the gun? He replied "almost 2 boxes" and that he knew what he was talking about!

How can you take people like that seriously?
I don't own a Glock, and don't know that I ever will, but I'm curious why you do not like them. After all 7-8 of them on 200K+ rounds seems like a lot for not liking them.

For me the style just never appealed to my pistol taste.

The P80 is just a slightly different flavor, although the slides can still be brick like.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I use Glocks in my 3Gun matches. (Not bullseye speaking, Pistol Rifle shotgun 3 gun) I shoot a G35 (not close to stock) as my primary and a G22 slightly modded as a back up. These 3gun are mostly about 300 pistol rounds. We also shoot steel matches using same gun and loads for 600 ish more. I also shoot at least weekly for 200 ish more shots.
Frequency is a Steel match every month and usually every other a 3 Gun. (Pre Covid numbers) so totals are about 1100 rounds per month if both 3 gun & Steel matches and 800 if not. We start in April and run thru November but I stop regular matches in September with hunting season. So Six month. Lets just say 6000 rounds a season. Shooting factory barrel in G35 and my powder coated bullets. I have t had a single bullet related failure in the G35. I have broken a recoil spring and a couple bad magazine springs. The G22 hasnt had any issues but dosent see 25% the shooting. (Other folks have used more then I have?) I have shot like this since late summer 2016. Picking up the G35 mid summer 2018. (Shot G22 before that) I credit Powder coat for allot of the non fouling issues. I run a snake thru the bore and rarely ever find any residue.
CW
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Anecdotal stories about individual Glock owners are hardly representative of all Glock owners. Same could be said about anecdotal stories about owners of 1911 pistols or Rolls Royce automobiles.

The term “Glock Perfection” is nothing more than a marketing campaign and it doesn’t mean that Glocks are perfect, but it gets bantered around by some as if it is fact.

Handguns are tools. I have a lot of handguns and to me they are a lot like watches, cars, tractors, and other cool mechanical devices. I find pleasure in the engineering and design just as much as the function.

People tend to form strong opinions about some possessions, particularly expensive possessions (vehicles, guns, computers, boats, etc.). Part of that is the tendency to seek confirmation that they made a good purchasing decision and part is just the human tendency to seek acceptance. (I purchased truck X and want you to tell me that was a good idea).

In the end, what works for you is what matters.
 
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Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I got this mental disorder. It just makes me fall in love with Junk guns, odd guns, and ugly guns.
Plus love builds, and repairs Bringing the Monster to life so to speak.

So if it is a Beretta, Bersa, Remington, Hi Point, Glock. Brand does not really mater. If it has a major issue. I just have to take it home.

If it is destroyed beyond use and has some good parts. Even better, I just have to buy it and start a build.
If it is beyond my abilities or tooling. Or if I cannot find parts, then I will sell, destroy or give away the leftovers. If not then it gets finished and kept forever.

I call it my collection of bastages and orphans. The collection has a special gun cabinet all to itself and is the most used of all my guns. These are my most prizes possessions.
Most of those bastages, if automobiles, could be called rat rods, ugly but fully functional.
The Frankin Glock will go in that collection.
It will look good along side the Maverick JS9 and will probably take a few range trips with it.
 
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Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Heck if I am going Franken gun with it maybe we will go 22 TMC.
Hmm wonder if Fiver Can make 30 to 40 grain .224 jacketed?
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Thats an intriguing caliber. There is another thats shorter (of is this The short one?) That can be chambered in a Glock!! (9mm case)

CW
 

Loren

Member
"A sub-variant, the 22 TCM 9R, with a shorter, more deeply-seated bullet, is designed for use in Glock magazines limited to standard-length 9mm cartridges. Standard factory loads are 40-grain jacketed soft hollow point, 39-grain for "9R"."


9R version on the right

TCM_+_TCM_9R.jpg
 
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Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Ye 9r.
Wonder if we could find a cast lead bullet shape that would work well for that.
Maybe we could up it from 35 to 40 grain to 45 or 50 grain. Slow that thing down from 2100 fps to 1800 fps. Maybe use something like H110 the likes a pretty full case, with a small pistol magnum primer.
I know I can shoot 22 pc'd lead, at 1800 fps and have it accurate enough for a pistol.
That would be a challenge, getting the gun to work and the load.
You guys can stop me any time.
 

Intel6

Active Member
Ye 9r.
Wonder if we could find a cast lead bullet shape that would work well for that.
Maybe we could up it from 35 to 40 grain to 45 or 50 grain. Slow that thing down from 2100 fps to 1800 fps. Maybe use something like H110 the likes a pretty full case, with a small pistol magnum primer.
I know I can shoot 22 pc'd lead, at 1800 fps and have it accurate enough for a pistol.
That would be a challenge, getting the gun to work and the load.
You guys can stop me any time.

I shoot a few of my Hornets with cast and always thought the NOE 37 gr. would be good for the 5.7 or the TCM.

In the pic are a few culls I GC'd and sized for examples.

From R to L

NOE copy of the RCBS 55 gr.

NOE 46 gr. WFN PB I also have this in a GC. I like this in my single shot .22 Hornets.

NOE 37 gr. FN that I use for my magazine fed Hornets.



22 cal bullets.jpg
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
That 37 grain gas checked might just be the ticket. It emulates the. Original bullet shape pretty good. Either with pan lube or powder coat, bet I could push that to 2000 and get real close to the accuracy curve for that set up.
 
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JustJim

Well-Known Member
P&P, if it only happened once I'd write it off as an isolated nut. Unfortunately, there are just too many people like this. After one of these fine fellows "accidentally" put a round through my Pachmayr pistol box while searching for the safety on his pistol, I resigned from the Ike's and pretty much started avoiding public ranges. I'm not there to validate their purchase decisions, feed into their delusions, or stroke their egos. If they ask--BEFORE they put a round through the roof over the firing line, or my equipment--I'll be happy to walk them through the basics of safety and how their new gun works.

Loren, better to say what I like about Glocks before getting into what I don't.

Out of the box reliability is good--real good. I've seen a lot of new Glocks go with 2 or fewer feeding problems in the first 1,000 rounds. The value of this shouldn't be underestimated, most folks never reach 1,000 rounds. If the folks from Alpha Centauri start throwing EMP-equipped zombie-virus-laden meteors at us and I only have time to grab one gun at a gun store, I want a G17 and every spare mag and round of 9mm 125 they have. Without thinking or wondering, I know it will work and I can't think of any other NIB semi-auto pistol that I can say that about.

Before things went nuts in the latest round of insanity, Glocks were fairly available, and relatively inexpensive. This made it easy to source one to experiment with new cartridges. I had a couple of 10mms, a .40, and a 357 Sig. I could usually pick up the gun and spare mags, shoot for a while, and recoup most or all of my investment when I sold or traded the gun. Spare mags are available, and not outrageously expensive (think "S&W 52" or "H&K P7").

Accuracy is normally OK for a service pistol. The regular factory sights suck, but consistently so: they weren't made for target matches. Glocks are a pain to test in a Ransom rest, but comparing loads from a benchrest is doable if not quite as repeatable. This often means you can quickly diagnose problems without a lot of work. When a friend can't keep 17 rounds on a paper plate at 25 yards, you can shoot it and see if his sights are off/ammo is not working for him/he's a lousy shot.

As for what I don't like. . . the safety (or lack of a safety) comes to mind, but for me this is a training issue. I've never limited myself to only shooting Glocks. I think if I did I'd get used to it. Maybe.

I'm not comfortable with the polymer frame. Yeah, I know all the wonders of Nylon 6 and Glock's special blend, but I've also had frame cracks and parts break off on guns that were relatively new (early 10mm, ), while I was still testing them with factory ammo to get the brass to handload. Necessity sometimes requires storing a gun temporarily under less than ideal conditions (in a car in a TX summer, or NoDak winter), and this accelerates decomp of plastics. It isn't ideal for the car interior, and the car interior isn't supporting a pressure vessel.

Over the years I've seen one broken gripframe (cop buddy said he slipped on some ice and fell down a couple steps), and photos of another. I've had mags crack (once I had to disassemble the pistol to get mag and ammo out). The mag problem is supposedly fixed, but it is something I'd always worry about. There's also been reports of some breakage around the mag well--chips or cracks, usually on older guns. In the back of my mind I'm going to wonder if this is due to aging of the plastic.

And yeah, most of this won't matter as much to someone who shoots occasionally and only owns one pistol (or all Glocks). They're just things I think about. As I said, I'm not a fan; that doesn't mean I don't appreciate some aspects of the design.

Then again, I've always wanted a COP derringer, so maybe I'm just weird.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
There’s no shortage of stupidity and incompetence, I’m sure we’ve all seen plenty of examples.

I’m a bit reluctant to associate stupidity and incompetence to the selection of a particular item. I routinely see incompetent drivers operating SUV’s but SUV’s are incredibly popular in our country so the shear numbers alone will skew the data. Are people that buy SUV’s generally bad drivers or are there so many SUV’s than bad drivers are going to been seen in that type of vehicle more often?

If you spend any time around guns, you’re going to see some idiots with guns. The presence of idiots in the world pre-dates the existence of Glocks; by a long time.

Glocks are well known, hugely popular, readily available, and before the current madness; reasonably priced. So, it is entirely possible that new shooters are highly likely to select Glocks. Some of those people are bound to be idiots just by chance. That doesn’t absolutely equate to Glock owners being incompetent, but it might lead some casual observers to draw improper conclusions about Glock owners in general.

Glocks are not constructed like traditional pistols. They have polymer frames. They utilize a partially tensioned striker. They have passive safeties. These departures from conventional design lead to some suspicion and maybe some latent prejudice.

I’m not a Glock promoter or a Glock fanboy. Nor do I believe the ad campaign of “Glock Perfection” is anything more than an advertising catchphrase. Glocks have been on American soil for more than 35 years and there have been more than 5 million pistols produced. The shear numbers alone are going to have an influence on the observations of people with that type of pistol.

Every time I see some suburban soccer mom attempting to parallel park a Ford Expedition and doing it poorly; I’m inclined to think all SUV drivers are incompetent. But then I realize that particular driver probably couldn’t park a Mini Cooper any better.
 
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Walks

Well-Known Member
As long as I've had Glocks, the 2 I've kept are about the oldest 23 & 21. The 23 didn't even have a captive mainspring. I put at 10,000 rds thru my 1st Glock, a M17. Guess a 1st gen, but I never really paid attention to such things. Got a Wolf 9mm Conversion bbl for the 23. My Daughter has put about 10,000 9mm thru it in the last 10yrs. Guess no malfunctions or I would have heard about it. Have Wolf bbl's for M23 & M21.
The M23 ate several thousand rounds loaded with #40143. Never really had a leading problem, but I cleaned every time.
Sized .401 and lubed with 50/50. These days it Lee #401-175-TC and PC'd.

There was a Indoor Range near me that had a early Glock 17 that had well over 100,000rd's thru it in 1996. The round count was accurate because they only allowed their factory ammo to be shot in it. New springs and replacement magazines and regular cleanings were allEvernote. got.

Glocks are not for everyone. Love them or hate them.

They will ALWAYS Work.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Wonder how that 22tcm9r head spaces, off the bottle neck shoulder , rim or the case mouth? I assume the Shoulder. Case length and mouth squareness, crimp or lack thereof, should be a bit less critical then 9mm or 40.

Ben looking at that Armscore-RIA, Glock- Poly 80, compatible complete upper, for well under 500 clams, it is something I could afford to make payments on. Would be a quick way to finish off what I have in a cool new cartidge.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Wonder how that 22tcm9r head spaces, off the bottle neck shoulder , rim or the case mouth? I assume the Shoulder. Case length and mouth squareness, crimp or lack thereof, should be a bit less critical then 9mm or 40.
I think it's safe to assume it headspaces on the shoulder.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Then again, I've always wanted a COP derringer, so maybe I'm just weird.

Have one. Weighs 47 lbs and cant hit the side of a barn due to poor barrel regulation. But inside of six feet it is everything it's supposed to be, though a steel 1911 weighs less....loaded.

I don't mind plastic AR variant rifles (I even have an LR-308 with a plastic receiver), but not plastic handguns. I'm weird like that.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
I dunno, I carried a Glock Model 36 for, well a long darned time. When I first got it I had failure to extract issues about every 200 rounds. The Glock rep came to our agency and I braced him. He was adamant that Glocks were wonder guns and I was doing something wrong. How I could cause an extractor to leave a case in the chamber I don't understand. Then the rep admitted that Glock had changed the extractor by putting a loaded chamber indicator on the extractor. He changed mine out on the spot and it has been better, but certainly not "perfection." I do get nice compliments on my malfunction clearing skills by whatever range master I happen to be trying to requalify for my HR 218 card.

You know what was "perfection", an ordinary Smith K frame revolver. The last darned gun I'd part with is a. Model 66. Furthermore, if some bad guy was holding a knife to my carotid and a cop was aiming a gun at his head from more that 7 yards away, I'd pray to God he had a Smith revolver and not any damned automatic. Not very likely today.