RE-sizing 22 LR

CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I mentioned in Tomme's "New Rifle" thread that I was fiddling with a die much like one made by Neil Waltz. Guy who made it is in Michigan and he made these because he was unable to get one from Neil. (Advanced age) I have just learned that these dies will be offered for sale and shipping in May 2024. But costs have gone up substantially. They are now just under 200$.

Anyhow, my results where tested using Federal Auto Match ammo. I sized 3/4 of a box. Then sorted those sized into groups within .001 of each other.

I was able to shoot this ammo under somewhat controlled conditions. Sans some wind. Thru a Anshutz 64 and a Marlin 880sq. Both guns with heavy barrels and Match chambers. Both only @ 50 yards.


Here is the BEFORE TARGETS:

IMG_3551.jpegIMG_3552.jpeg

Here are the AFTER:

IMG_3553.jpegIMG_3550.jpeg

Quite dramatic and sans that one flyer groups where 1/2ed.

More testing for sure with more and different ammo to come.

Im going to tune up my Marlin next. I have a new laminated stock coming and I will likely pillar and glass bed it into this stock.

I am also hard eye balling the Ruger Long Range Target rifle.

CW
 
Spindrift

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
I have a die that can make either a flat, or hollow point. I shot a fair bit of comparative groups, using Geco rifle (made by RWS), RWS target rifle and SK magazine (made by Lapua).

With these cartridges, accuracy was the same. But this is ammo with reasonable quality in the first place- far from top notch, but reasonably good. It might be, the potential for improved accuracy depends on what ammo you're working with?
 
Gary

Gary

SE Kansas
In my trials with a homemade die I discovered that the ammo that "benefited" from the RE-sizing was the bulk cheaper ammo such as the Rem Golden Bullets. I made a KYL's target system and was only able to clear the entire set of targets with Rem Golden bullets that had been flat pointed. Didn't experiment with my Tac22 or CCI Standard Velocity Target ammo. I will do that when the wind settles down a bit.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The biggest gains are to be had with the lower quality ammo to start with. There's more room for improvement there.
The high quality target ammo is already pretty good and there's just not as much room for improvement.

The idea behind flat pointing dies and rim thickness gauges is to get better results out of cheaper ammo.

Along that same theme, a flat pointed bullet is superior for small game hunting. When the CCI Small Game Bullet [SGB] was readily available, that was an excellent choice. In today's world, a flat pointing die allows one to make a flat point bullet for small game hunting that is both more effective AND has improved accuracy. A Win-Win with the available ammunition.
 
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Gary

Gary

SE Kansas
I've watched several utube videos about high dollar ammo and while it seems to be accurate (Lapua, Tenex, et al) they still occasionally produce that group ruining flyer.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Gary said:
I've watched several utube videos about high dollar ammo and while it seems to be accurate (Lapua, Tenex, et al) they still occasionally produce that group ruining flyer.
Click to expand...
The same is true about the lower cost ammo. The best we can hope for is the best Overall results. We strive to improve the aggregate results of many rounds, not the individual shot.
 
todd

todd

Well-Known Member
i'm sorry, i forgot about BullShop, he was doing some 22LR powder and boolits.

22 rim fire load data | Bullshop Forums

While rummaging through some papers I found this sheet of load data I had worked up for the 22 rim fire. Since I developed this data I have sold the Schuetzen rifle and all the loading tools I
bullshop.freeforums.net bullshop.freeforums.net


and his son's, Junior was telling about 22LR modified bullets

Modified 22 findnigs | Bullshop Forums

I mentioned on a thread last week that I was going to be playing with a took for modifying 22 ammo to be more suitable for hunting, while also making the ammo more consistent and I was wondering ifit
bullshop.freeforums.net bullshop.freeforums.net
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Yes 100% Do not waste the effort on "hi dollar" ammo with these ideas...

Many "big name" RF ammo companies actually only produce a few lines if ammo. Yes some have a dozen offerings. What they do is, SORT AMMO! Best gets highest prices and as if trickle down. The offer lower and lower cost options. In case of SK for instance. The offer one result if these to Wolf repackaged as there premium ammo.
The standards are higher so even SK "rejects" may be as good or better then a company who dosent have ability to produce as quality a product...

I LOVE SGB!!

IMG_3637.jpeg
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Last nite, listening to Utube videos, I sorted a new full box of Federal Champion 22.
Exactly THREE, bullets were .002/.003 "fat" and 14 where .003-.007 thin and 25/30 were .002/.003 thin. ALL remaining, or about 475 pcs was within .003 of each other! This was a old, loose, bulk box, I have had for years.
About 4/6 of those that were real thin, was .006-.007 thin. My brain kinda sparked when I read the dial not instantly l recollecting the difference, it was so much! :oops:
IMG_3639.jpeg
 
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R

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
So, how does this die work and what exactly does it do? If I'm understanding correctly, it uniforms up the bullet diameter? What about the ones like you mention that are under sized?
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The Neal Waltz die simply forces the bullet into a stem inside the die. This compresses the bullet tip to form a flat point (or HP if you use a different pin). The metal has to go somewhere, so as you flatten the bullet tip slightly, the bullet gets swaged to a slightly larger diameter. We aren't talking about a lot here. The die mostly just supports the cartridge and bullet during the process to keep everything square.
You end up with a flat point, a slightly fatter bullet and hopefully all the bullets about equal.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
richhodg66 said:
So, how does this die work and what exactly does it do? If I'm understanding correctly, it uniforms up the bullet diameter? What about the ones like you mention that are under sized?
Click to expand...
Exactly. My die is made by Guy Plumb. A machinist in Michigan who tired of no avalibinity of the Waltz die. So he made his own.

What I did last night was just measure rim thicknesses. Separate them to like sizes. In my case within .001. Any thicker or thinner get there own container. The idea is the thickness determines head space.
Just thinking as I write this... Mine is a match chamber. As you know it engraves rifling with chambering... Wondering what the head space difference causes here??? Usually it would be distance off rifling.

Im going to size these on the bench, at the range. So I can adjust the "squeeze" and see if I find changes.

Yea 4/6... Not a fraction, I
couldn't exactly remember, the actual count. So, it was at least four, but not more then six cartritages. ;)
 
M

Monochrome

Active Member
ironically 99% of all 22lr rifles will never actually see any differrence between ammunition and grouping.

ironically, only .001% of people using a 22lr are actually worried about accuracy. "its got a 10/20/30 round magazine. just keep pulling that trigger"
 
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