Reworked Marlin 1894

[Brad]

Yep, you are correct Bill. Highest and lowest velocities yet the tightest groups.
I think those loads were in sweet spots velocity wise for the rifle. That is why I plan to reshoot with .5 gr more powder. Will be interesting to see what that shows.
I think the rifle has a sweet spot in the 1625 fps range and that is my target velocity.

 

[Brad]

OK, now you have to repeat the whole exercise a second time to see if the results
are repeatable. Hope the budget, both fiscal and temporal, will stand
the pressure.

I reshot the same loads but kids not use the chronograph. I used a different rest setup and that made some interesting differences. I need to get those targets posted. None of the groups was as tight as a few last time but they were, on average, much better.

First go around was a hunk of 8x8 with a bunny ear bag. I was very upright with elbows on the bench. Second time I used my Sinclair front rest and this makes me hunch over much more. Recoil seems more severe with lower position as I can't roll with it. Not an issue but it does make a difference. I need to cobble together a couple boards to place under the front rest to gain 2 inches of height.

 

[Pistolero]

It is amazing how much recoil there is with a .44 Mag levergun. I bought a W94 in .44 Mag a number of
years ago, was really shocked at how much the thing kicked with normal Keith loads! I also have a Browning
92 in the same cartridge, neither has been a standout in accy, although the last time I really worked with them
was well before I started actually understanding cast bullets very well, so I did some pretty braindead things
which I would not even try now.

I need to slug both bbls and start over. Part of my disgust was that neither fed the Kieth designs worth a
darn, although they will FIT in the W94, and really are too long to even get close to working in the 92. Since
I was wanting a "companion carbine", the bullet incompatibility put a huge damper on that. With some LBT
style molds now, and a WHOLE lot more understanding, I need to revisit both of them.

Bill

 

[Pistolero]

Just went and reviewed my targets and load info.....I had forgotten that with 240 gr commercial
cast short nosed SWC BB the Browning did real well with several loads, esp 10 gr Unique.



Another reason that I really love 10 gr of Unique - the magic load in a lot of guns for some strange reason.

I will have to put a peep sight on that gun before I can shoot it well again with my new
eyes the stock middle sight will likely be unusable. Proof that I used to be able to see.

Bill

 

[Brad]

Bill, I will tell you this. A Marlin doesn't have near the felt recoil of a Winchester. Not even close. Stock design is the difference. My Marlin 1895 with heavy loaded is far more enjoyable to shoot than my 94BB in 375 Win. Think of it this way, a 415 gr bullet in the 45-70 at 1400 fps is easier on me than a 275 gr bullet at 1500 fps in the 94.


And those 10 gr of Unique loads look pretty good. Never tried that powder in this rifle. Might need to give it a whirl.

 

[fiver]

the browning 92's will not feed anything over 1.610.
[leave it to them to screw up a browning designed rifle]
I just shoot 40 S&W cases I swage into 44 mag bullets in my B-92, it's easier, a lot easier than trying to make all the others conform to it's issue.

and the stock thing Brad mentioned Is correct.
I have a win 94 in 375 win and the Marlin in 375 win and the recoil in the Marlin is probably half it shoots the stouter loads more accurately too.
I was gonna have the marlin re-chambered to the shorter super mag round at one time then realized they only made like 50 of the things.

 

[Pistolero]

Never thought about stock design as an issue before. I will have to compare them dimensionally some time.

Bill

 

[Brad]

Fire them side by side and you will. Marlin rifles are far easier on the shooter. Browning designed a great action but the stock design leaves something to be desired.

 

[Pistolero]

SAAMI max LOA for .44-40 is 1.592, SAAMI max LOA for .44 Mag is 1.610. If the Browning 92 will feed 1.610, then it
meets SAMMI specs, hard to fault. **However**, THE original bullet is the 429421 Keith design, but apparently nobody
at Browning was aware enough to realize that they should have accommodated it, or it was difficult or impossible to
do, possibly. I wonder if anyone has modified the 92 for longer LOA? Anyone know if this is possible/easy/difficult?

Brad, I have an 1886 Extra Lite and Marlin GG. Never thought that they were much different in recoil, although
I have shot much more with the Marlin, and more heavy loads. GG has recoil pad, 86 steel BP. Just noted that the W94
(plastic BP) in .44 Mag was more than expected, and have no Marlin 1894 to compare to. I do not doubt your info at all,
stock design can important, would like to understand what actually causes the difference. Never
occurred to me that the issue with the W94 might be stock design.

Bill

 

[Brad]

For me it is largely comb height. The Winchester beats my cheek badly. The Marlin has a comb far more designed for iron sight use. The Winchester seems to be designed more for a higher sighting system.
I have not looked at drop or the angle of the butt in relation to the bore but they would alter felt recoil too.

All I know is that my cheek really dislikes Winchester 94s. Only pain I ever feel from a Marlin is when I forget to hold on tighter with heavier loads and the scope bits me on the 45-70. On two different occaisions. A year apart. With blood.

 

[Brad]

Looking at the stocks side by side I see little difference. Even holding them as if to shoot I don't see a big difference. They feel as if they have the same cheek weld position.
I expected to see a noticeable difference. All I noticed is the rattle of the Win 94 against the silence of the Marlin. Every Win 94 I ever handled has that rattle.

 

[Pistolero]

Interesting. I would have expected more difference, too. Mauser 93s and 95s have a lot of stock drop and sharp combs
and one has to be careful to keep from doing what seems natural and "hooking" one's cheekbone over the sharp edge of
the 95 stock. If you do, as the gun rises in recoil, rather sharply due to the large drop, even though the 7x57 is mild in recoil,
your cheekbone will get a hard punch. If you roll your head just a tiny bit, keeping the cheekbone to the left side of the
top of the stock (right handed shooter), like a 1/2" placement difference, you will feel no punch in the face, just mild recoil.
Stock design IS important.

Bill

 

[Brad]

Oddly the Marlin 444 is the one that does bite me. A 300 gr bullet at 1600 in that rifle seems worse than a similar weight bullet in the 45-70.
Stock design is one thing people overlook way too much. A well fit rifle is a joy to shoot while one that doesn't fit can be nothing but agony.

 

[Ian]

Same with shotguns. A lot of them have a steep slope to the comb and it will eventually make your face and neck sore. Post-64 Winchesters beat my face because of the slick epoxy (or whatever it is) finish, my skin sticks to it unless I have at least a two-day beard going. Marlin's oil finish doesn't stick like that.

 

[Ricochet]

My 1973 Marlin 1895 is the most punishing gun I've ever shot, due to its hard curved buttplate with a sharp toe. Even with the old fashioned 405 grain factory soft points at a nominal 1320 FPS or with 300 grain cast at a bit under 1600 FPS I've always had an obvious bruise on my shoulder the next morning. I used to routinely shoot 400 grain bullets with 54 grains of hard compressed 3031, which would really turn my shoulder purple, but as I got older I decided the .45-70 was a black powder cartridge and I ought to load it to black powder power levels. It's a lot more pleasant to shoot that way.

 

[fiver]

you can modify the lifter to take a bit longer rounds in the 92's.
I took and ground the little stop button on my 44 mag [Rossi] so that the round slid back just a bit further and it feeds the 429241 crimped in the lube groove.
it feeds the 429667 about 200 times slicker so I mainly stick with it, but it will feed the 241.
the browning would probably need a little bit removed from the bottom front of the feed ramp as well as the stop on the lifter to get it to feed.
angle, length, and timing matter a ton in the 92's the round itself becomes part of the machinery.
when you get things right it's like running the rifle empty except with a boom at the end.

 

[Pistolero]

Thanks fiver, I'll put it on the list to look into more closely. Good to konw that it is possible, I
had wondered if thw length was just fixed and not possible to modify.

Richochet - you need to change that stock. My Marlin 1895 GG, with a good sorbothane (Kick-EZE brand) pad is OK with 405s at 1750, although
I must say 2100 fps with that same bullet is just more 'fun' than I can take. Even though the gun will stand the loads, I won't.

If it was mine, I would see if it is possible to put a flat rear on the buttstock and add the Kick EZE pad. Curved may look nice, but it is not
any fun past about a .32-20. Try 57 gr of W748, slower and lower pressure, much less whack to the shoulder, actually makes Trapdoor
pressure limits and 1750 fps from the short Guide Gun barrel.

 

[Ricochet]

I bought a PAST Magnum Recoil Shield when I was recovering from nearly tearing my right arm off 16 years ago. It's in the bottom of my range box. I suppose I just ought to get it out when I shoot the 1895.

 

[Pistolero]

I use the PAST recoil shield on the range, but since I hunt with the Guide Gun, I wanted a good pad. With heavy loads, you need
all the help you can get. I didn't like the feel of 3031, and even though many illustrious folks disagree, including
Elmer Keith, I found no real accuracy with it.

 

[Brad]

Next up, a test between a couple of bullet sizes. I have been using .433 sized bullets and am getting decent but not great results. I want to see if a .432 bullet does any better. I have bullets of both sizes cast from the same pot ready for lubing.
I may not get a chance to shoot them for a few weeks.
Range scrap alloy tests 10 BHn two days after casting. Heat treated them to 425 for an hour then quenched. After just 12 hours they test 15 BHn. By the time I shoot them I expect closer to 18, right about what I want.