Some old Photos for your enjoyment
- Thread starter JWFilips
- Start date
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly. Amazing that we still know about it and impressed 3,000 years later.
How many men will do something that will be remembered 100 years? How many
1000 years? And far, far fewer have their words and name well known 3,000 years later.
And we know Leonidas had a sense of humor, too. Xerxes said, "Our arrows will blot out
the sun!" Leonidas said, "Then we will fight in the shade." No doubt with a grin.
They all died there, but we do know what they did.
Bill
How many men will do something that will be remembered 100 years? How many
1000 years? And far, far fewer have their words and name well known 3,000 years later.
And we know Leonidas had a sense of humor, too. Xerxes said, "Our arrows will blot out
the sun!" Leonidas said, "Then we will fight in the shade." No doubt with a grin.
They all died there, but we do know what they did.
Bill
Last edited:
Ian
Notorious member
Another "If you think so, then Come and Take It!" decree, also before cameras were invented: https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qvg01
Knights of the Crusades - interesting you bring that up. She was trying to tell me about Europe and the 2 Popes this morning - kinda wrong. Turks fought the East early on and Rome wouldn't send troops so they could keep power. Actually was a major 'battle' between East/West Catholic Empires previous. Anyway most of the 'countries' we talk about in medevil times didn't exist as such. Just a bunch of 'power' centers fighting among themselves until a major 'war'. France, Russia, Germany, most middle east 'countries'. Franks, Britons, etc, yes.
IIRC Pershing did a job in Mexico also. "the turtle" was a technique used by very early fighters but the 'shields' weren't very strong - made mostly to prevent an opponent from 'running' through the battle line. 200-300 BC.
IIRC Pershing did a job in Mexico also. "the turtle" was a technique used by very early fighters but the 'shields' weren't very strong - made mostly to prevent an opponent from 'running' through the battle line. 200-300 BC.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Uh, yeah to 'most of the countries not existing". It is a fun thing to ask normally well educated Americans
how long Germany and Italy have existed. "Everybody knows" that they are far, far older than the
young upstart the USA.
Except the German states were unified in the 1870s and the Italian city states about the same time.
The "young" USA is twice as old (governmentally) as these countries of "old Europe". Now, they were
inhabited by post-stone age civilizations far, far longer, of course.
Yeah, imagine trying to make a shield of ancient materials that would be capable of reasonably stopping
a spear or sword stroke more than once, or an arrow or five, and still be able to carry it around all day on one
arm and move it quickly when needed. Not a trivial design and manufacturing task.
Forged in Fire, the TV show, has been quite educational as to how difficult it is, even today with FAR better
steels, to make a really durable sword that will take the kind of abuse that a real sword in combat had
to survive if the owner were to have a chance of prevailing....aside from just meeting a better or luckier
swordsman, or lancer, or archer.
how long Germany and Italy have existed. "Everybody knows" that they are far, far older than the
young upstart the USA.
Except the German states were unified in the 1870s and the Italian city states about the same time.
The "young" USA is twice as old (governmentally) as these countries of "old Europe". Now, they were
inhabited by post-stone age civilizations far, far longer, of course.
Yeah, imagine trying to make a shield of ancient materials that would be capable of reasonably stopping
a spear or sword stroke more than once, or an arrow or five, and still be able to carry it around all day on one
arm and move it quickly when needed. Not a trivial design and manufacturing task.
Forged in Fire, the TV show, has been quite educational as to how difficult it is, even today with FAR better
steels, to make a really durable sword that will take the kind of abuse that a real sword in combat had
to survive if the owner were to have a chance of prevailing....aside from just meeting a better or luckier
swordsman, or lancer, or archer.
Last edited:
RBHarter
West Central AR
I was surprised at actually how light the swords of middle history were . I don't recall the numbers but a long sword was less than 15# with a balance point only a couple of inches down the blade from the bolster and 30-34" of blade . The massive 55-65" broad sword of horse cleving fame tipped in around 30# . A long sword was tested on cadavers being required to cleav 2 spines or a spine and 2 rib cages by a standard user , usually the blacksmiths apprentice . A swordsman didn't need to be especially strong to wield the sword but to carry the armour . A mounted knight in leather boots , guantlets , shell armour and chain maille tipped in about 1100 lbs . In maille the typical Crusader was carrying around 150# give or take for leather vs chain breaches , and sleeve length .
The Persians as we call them had the curved blade to slice and wound, didn't need much mass and were very effective. Middle times the big 'machine' was really a battle ax. Jousting type lances were really mobile battering rams to break through the line of defense. Africans used elephants to do that.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The Forged in Fire tests, often against pig carcasses are pretty eye opening. The lethality of a sword is
pretty amazing, and not in a fun way. A shield that would reliably stop that for more than one or two
blows and could be wielded easily one handed, seems a challenge. how many remember the final
fight scene in the movie Rob Roy? Yikes! The ORIGINAL Claymore.
It makes me think of the scene in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' when Indiana Jones gets tired while fighting and
then is confronted with a giant with huge curved sword. He sighs, draws his large, big bore revolver (something
like a Colt or S&W 1917 model) and just drops the guy. I have read that this was an ad lib and the kept it
in. That is MY kind of sword fight where he has a sword and I have a .45.
Bill
pretty amazing, and not in a fun way. A shield that would reliably stop that for more than one or two
blows and could be wielded easily one handed, seems a challenge. how many remember the final
fight scene in the movie Rob Roy? Yikes! The ORIGINAL Claymore.
It makes me think of the scene in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' when Indiana Jones gets tired while fighting and
then is confronted with a giant with huge curved sword. He sighs, draws his large, big bore revolver (something
like a Colt or S&W 1917 model) and just drops the guy. I have read that this was an ad lib and the kept it
in. That is MY kind of sword fight where he has a sword and I have a .45.
Bill
Last edited:
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Tonight is the first tour I have made through this thread. Fascinating content!
Early on, that black sea bass is HUGE. These have been illegal to take for at least 40 years, since they were almost fished out along the California coast by the 1970s. The population is recovering, and once in a while someone catches one and releases it--assuming that the BIG FISH doesn't "arbor" your reel or snap your rod. Most tackle used these days is not up to managing a fish of this size and strength. Reels capable of this task (Penn Internationals) are expensive, as are the rods that match the reels' potential. Too rich for my blood--yellowtail and other middle-weight pelagics are my upper limit.
Fat poor people--most of the rest of the world cannot fathom that about the USA.
I have done a bit of fossicking around with my family's genealogy. Like Bret, I had a great grandfather Who Shall Be Unnamed. My question was simple--I am Allen Franklin Paine III, my dad was "II"--so who and when did "I" live? As a young man, questions along this line were met with deflections and discussions of the prevailing weather. My paternal grandmother--who, it turns out, knew right well "who/what/when/where/why", dissembled at length about family background, virtuously (it turned out) but truthlessly. The research to get straight answers took months and is worthy of an article in its own right, but for now I can confidently state that direct descendants on my dad's side have been in this country since at least 1725, and probably longer than that. They lived in the Virginia Colony at that time. 2nd-great-grandfather Herbert Murrell Paine (b. 1810) fought with the 2nd Texas Cavalry, and soon after being paroled at the Civil War's end he loaded up his much younger wife and kids in an oxcart and headed to San Bernardino in 1865. Allen "I" was born in San Bernardino in 1870, the 17th of 19 children (final score is a mite sketchy). This is a bare-bones version of the story, which would burn up a lot of bandwidth to detail here. Mom's side is better-known and -documented--her mom arrived at Ellis Island in 1911 from Freiburg, Germany. Mom's dad grew up in Dinuba, CA and his family has been in the USA since at least 1870.
Early on, that black sea bass is HUGE. These have been illegal to take for at least 40 years, since they were almost fished out along the California coast by the 1970s. The population is recovering, and once in a while someone catches one and releases it--assuming that the BIG FISH doesn't "arbor" your reel or snap your rod. Most tackle used these days is not up to managing a fish of this size and strength. Reels capable of this task (Penn Internationals) are expensive, as are the rods that match the reels' potential. Too rich for my blood--yellowtail and other middle-weight pelagics are my upper limit.
Fat poor people--most of the rest of the world cannot fathom that about the USA.
I have done a bit of fossicking around with my family's genealogy. Like Bret, I had a great grandfather Who Shall Be Unnamed. My question was simple--I am Allen Franklin Paine III, my dad was "II"--so who and when did "I" live? As a young man, questions along this line were met with deflections and discussions of the prevailing weather. My paternal grandmother--who, it turns out, knew right well "who/what/when/where/why", dissembled at length about family background, virtuously (it turned out) but truthlessly. The research to get straight answers took months and is worthy of an article in its own right, but for now I can confidently state that direct descendants on my dad's side have been in this country since at least 1725, and probably longer than that. They lived in the Virginia Colony at that time. 2nd-great-grandfather Herbert Murrell Paine (b. 1810) fought with the 2nd Texas Cavalry, and soon after being paroled at the Civil War's end he loaded up his much younger wife and kids in an oxcart and headed to San Bernardino in 1865. Allen "I" was born in San Bernardino in 1870, the 17th of 19 children (final score is a mite sketchy). This is a bare-bones version of the story, which would burn up a lot of bandwidth to detail here. Mom's side is better-known and -documented--her mom arrived at Ellis Island in 1911 from Freiburg, Germany. Mom's dad grew up in Dinuba, CA and his family has been in the USA since at least 1870.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I believe Indys sidearm in that scene was a 455 Webley. In other movies, maybe even scenes, he had a Smith'17 IIRC. Still love those flicks!
Hacking and cleaving. Yes, we probably don't have any appreciation for what they went through back in the day. There was no "fair" in a fight. Rape and looting were common. No "rules of engagement" and if you got stabbed or sliced, you were probably going to die from the wound or the amputation. I always love watching the western where the stalwart hero, or his buxom love interest, catches an arrow ( or a bullet) in the shoulder, breaks the arrow off and continues to run around shooting and wrasslin' and riding his/her horse. Or the people that have a 5 minute fist fight with bad-guy-sitting-on-your-chest-with-his-hands-around-your-throat type thumping and then no one is even out of breath when it's done. I happen to love the old TV show "Peter Gunn", but good old Pete gets knocked out via a blow to the head pretty much every single episode. The guy would have so much brain damage by then end of the first season he wouldn't be able to feed himself, much less make witty comments to beautiful Eddie or Lt (no first name) Jacoby! Sword fighting, bayonet charges, knife fights, arrows, lances, hammers and axes. They all make a tremendous mess of things and I'm very happy that I was never a vassal conscripted to fight for the local Lord and get hacked up while he sat in the shade waiting to see if it was time to run or charge in to claim victory.
Hacking and cleaving. Yes, we probably don't have any appreciation for what they went through back in the day. There was no "fair" in a fight. Rape and looting were common. No "rules of engagement" and if you got stabbed or sliced, you were probably going to die from the wound or the amputation. I always love watching the western where the stalwart hero, or his buxom love interest, catches an arrow ( or a bullet) in the shoulder, breaks the arrow off and continues to run around shooting and wrasslin' and riding his/her horse. Or the people that have a 5 minute fist fight with bad-guy-sitting-on-your-chest-with-his-hands-around-your-throat type thumping and then no one is even out of breath when it's done. I happen to love the old TV show "Peter Gunn", but good old Pete gets knocked out via a blow to the head pretty much every single episode. The guy would have so much brain damage by then end of the first season he wouldn't be able to feed himself, much less make witty comments to beautiful Eddie or Lt (no first name) Jacoby! Sword fighting, bayonet charges, knife fights, arrows, lances, hammers and axes. They all make a tremendous mess of things and I'm very happy that I was never a vassal conscripted to fight for the local Lord and get hacked up while he sat in the shade waiting to see if it was time to run or charge in to claim victory.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I have Wright's , Allison's , Hughes's on Mom's side , first and second cousins to anybody of any note , Reed's and Blacks on Dad's side the namesake is a loss much past Welsh/Irish from the border lands that spent several 100 years being disputed between the French and Germans . Mom's stuff we thought was going to be pretty easy having Nancy Allison nailed down having been named for her Aunt who was William McKinley's mother .......turns out the official presidential genealogy lists his grandfather and great great grandfather's as "was probably" .........
Dad's side goes back to a James Black that was a signer of the South Carolina ratification of the Declaration of Independence . Both sides go from there back to the Virginia Colonies .
Having been in the Indian territories of Arkansas prior to 1859 for 2+ generations on Dad's side allowed me to get a Native American card ....it doesn't get me anything here as the Ouichita (wach i tah , don't ask me) is an abandoned tribe in the throws of trying to get re-recognized . Out west the Piute-Shoshone's will give me the fuel and sales tax break on the reservation with it and I'll take 30-35 cents a gallon on gas and diesel all day long .
Dad's side goes back to a James Black that was a signer of the South Carolina ratification of the Declaration of Independence . Both sides go from there back to the Virginia Colonies .
Having been in the Indian territories of Arkansas prior to 1859 for 2+ generations on Dad's side allowed me to get a Native American card ....it doesn't get me anything here as the Ouichita (wach i tah , don't ask me) is an abandoned tribe in the throws of trying to get re-recognized . Out west the Piute-Shoshone's will give me the fuel and sales tax break on the reservation with it and I'll take 30-35 cents a gallon on gas and diesel all day long .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
According to an online source, Indy's revolver, from Stembridge movie gun rentals, was a S&W 1917, and
the specific gun is known and is a private collection today. They show photos. Barrel cut down to 4" and
appear to be turned down for a muzzle ring type of new front sight, but the muzzle ring looks
to be about the same diam as the bbl.
I wasn't sure from looking at the swordsman scene, you really can't tell, it was too fast, but I
kinda remember a big S&W like a 1917., seems like in other scenes, but it has been a good
while since I saw the movie.
Bill
the specific gun is known and is a private collection today. They show photos. Barrel cut down to 4" and
appear to be turned down for a muzzle ring type of new front sight, but the muzzle ring looks
to be about the same diam as the bbl.
I wasn't sure from looking at the swordsman scene, you really can't tell, it was too fast, but I
kinda remember a big S&W like a 1917., seems like in other scenes, but it has been a good
while since I saw the movie.
Bill
Last edited:
Forget the movie . . . What you really need to see is
Stembridge movie gun rentals. Not open to the public but I was there a few times when working in the industry. Guaranteed jaw dropper just walking in the door never mind the row after row after row of shelving and racks floor to ceiling. Nothing you could name that isn't there.
RBHarter
West Central AR
In the first Indy movie it was a Webley . I clearly remember him breaking it to see it empty . Later he lost it either throwing it at someone or fumbling it . He then had to run from the sword weilder on the bridge when he reached for it and found an empty flap holster .......
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Just Here now to celebrate "Decoration Day"....now that is a term from our past! When did it become Memorial Day?
Another old one from shorpy.com
May 31, 1943. "Gallipolis, Ohio. Soldier at Decoration Day ceremonies." Photo by Arthur Siegel for the Office of War Information.
Another old one from shorpy.com
May 31, 1943. "Gallipolis, Ohio. Soldier at Decoration Day ceremonies." Photo by Arthur Siegel for the Office of War Information.
