Soon to offer blank Lee type sizing dies

[KeithB]

Not sure where to post this and I hope it doesn't come across as crass advertising but Brad suggested I offer Lee type blank sizing dies for sale. These are the push through type used in a press with 7/8-14 threads. The will be finished completely externally and have a 3/16 pilot hole drilled through the body. The material used will be 1144 ("Stressproof") steel, this is the same material I use for all the other types of blank dies.

Material costs are a little squirrelly right now but I'm hoping to keep the cost to $10 or less. I plan to start a small trial run early next week. Not trying to take reservations or anything like that just making an announcement.

 

[Ian]

Good news!

Large material is really hard on my 7x14 lathe's gears and brushes, count me in for a few when you get them in production.

 

[RicinYakima]

I would need a few also.

 

[Gary]

Sounds good to me.

 

[KeithB]

It appears as if the sizing section is fairly short. Would it be helpful to back bore/drill the top end to say 1/2" diameter with the 3/16" diameter pilot hole on the bottom end? With my equipment its no trouble to do, might even be faster to drill two different size holes from either end rather than one small hole all the way through.

What would be the best for you guys? I'm always open for suggestions.

 

[fiver]

just a suggestion.
but yeah,,, opening the top [like the bottom of a star die] would be very helpful if you could reach it with the size stem, so you sized and released the bullet in one stroke of the ram.
instead of pushing the first one out [of the size die] with the second bullet.

 

[Ian]

I would say yes to the back-bore, but would probably want it to be more shallow than most others would.

My idea of the perfect push-through sizing die is a stepped hole with a tapered entrance and tapered transition between the diameters. The first diameter would be nominal cast diameter and the second one would give the desired final size. The bullet would be supported straight before being significantly sized. The punch would also be stepped and fit closely to the larger diameter so that it aligned in the die as the bullet is being pushed through the smaller part. To make it work correctly with 180-grain, .30-caliber rifle bullets would take at least 1.5" of die length below the back-bore.

 

[Ian]

Right, Fiver. One of my first projects when the drill rod selection arrives is making new, longer punches for my vintage, collectible Perfesser push-through conversion die. The bullets sometimes get so much air compressed between them that the will hit the ceiling.

We would back-bore them anyway, its just so much easier to have most of the work done already, on center, with someone else's flood-cooled drill and CNC lathe.

 

[KeithB]

The die itself is about 2.920" long. About how much sizing section would be a good compromise length, would 1.25" - 1.5"" be enough? The end user could drill the big hole deeper to shorten the sizing section. I'm just trying to keep you guys from having to abuse your hardware any more than necessary.

Ian, I have some blank pushrods for the sizer sets I used to sell on CB. They are 2nd generation and are longer and should push the bullet all the way through a standard unmodified Lyman or RCBS die. I'll throw in a handful with the necessary O-rings. One end already has a lathe center hole, the other end has been turned and grooved. They are 1144, you should have no problems turning them on your lathe.

"The bullets sometimes get so much air compressed between them that the will hit the ceiling." What size groups are you getting?

 

[Ian]

Not bad but I developed one helluva flinch!

 

[Brad]

I like mine backbored for about 1 3/4 to 2 inches. I like the sizing portion to be about 1/2 inch and about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of in feed angle.

Keith, I should have the die in the mail Monday.

 

[Ian]

Wow, thank you, Keith! I still use that setup but the bullet stacking thing has always been a problem with the first run. As I recall it was impractical at the time for you to make them longer and you had some pretty major health issues crop up about that time too.

I'm operating under the assumption that there will be one design because it isn't realistic to write two programs for a part that couldn't net more than a couple bucks a piece anyway, so I'll go with whatever works for most others. 1.5" of material might be more than most others need or want.

 

[KeithB]

Brad, I was out shopping for a gift for a friend at a local sporting good store yesterday and realized I had a gift certificate from some Christmas past. They had Lee sizer sets, I bought a .225" one and got 65 cents back from my $25 GC. Don't worry about sending me your die. I was going to PM you here shortly about this anyway.

I'll probably sell/trade this set here when I'm done.

 

[Brad]

The only real critical dimension on the outside, other than the threads, is the top. The .820diameter is only important if you intend to use the red plastic tub for collecting bullets.

I think this is an awesome idea Keith.

Another reason I like the backboring idea is thst it eliminate the need for me to grip the die by the threads to backbore it myself. I can just focus on drilling, boring, and polishing the business end.

 

[KeithB]

Ian, it's very little trouble to change the depth of a drilled hole. Only problem is I just don't want to stock multiple products that differ only in the depth of a hole, nor do I want to stock one standard product and have to custom drill a hole before shipping.

If you tell me what you want I will be glad to drill the holes in them to any depth or diameter you want. I just ask that we do it during the batch run and not later. I don't want to have to handle these things more than once or have to tear down an existing job to run something special.

 

[Pistolero]

It would seem that back boring the min length that will satisfy everyone should
be the best. Those that want shorter will drill 1/2 a bit deeper, but with a started hole,
that should be easy, even with just a drill press.

But....since I don't do much sizing with these, my opinion is not that of a customer, just
an interested bystander. The actual customers need to make their choice. Might not
be too hard to make short or long sizing section versions.

Bill

 

[Ian]

If I had my 'druthers there would be 1.5" of material to work with on the bottom. 1.75" wouldn't hurt my feelings, like Bill said it's easy to deepen a drilled hole, especially one that's already well over an inch deep.

Something for us to consider when completing these if back-bored 1/2" is small bullets. .225" bullets will stack in tandem and noses will wedge between from below, causing a mighty bind in the top of the die. An aluminum, Nylon, or Delrin bushing drilled for the bullets to freely pass and turned to press-fit in the back-bored hole should take care of that if anyone wants to go smaller than .30-caliber.

 

[KeithB]

I might check and see if the dimensions would work out with using a taper pin reamer to ream the relief hole. Just like the chip chute on my CNC mill that gets bigger in diameter towards the exit. I don't think bullets would jam in a hole that has enough taper in the right direction.

 

[Pistolero]

Taper sure sounds like a good idea. But...

Cutting a taper is a whole lot more work than drilling a hole. From what I have
seen NOTHING is as easy for stock removal as drilling a hole. But, Keith, since you know
a good bit more about machine work than I do, maybe you have some slick way figured
to do this easily. I got a very limited bag of machining tricks, always learning on other folks
slick ideas.

Bill

 

[KeithB]

Okay, I'm going to offer some options and alternative designs here, please feel free to weigh in.

1. Drill a 3/16" hole all the way through and let the end user drill the top end to an appropriate diameter to match the caliber.

2. Drill the top end to 1/4" or so and run a tapered reamer into the hole.

3.(a). Drill and ream the top end to 1/2" - 5/8" and include a plastic plug that the end user could drill out to fit or omit for .40+ caliber bullets.

3.(b). Thread the plastic plug and the hole in the die to guarantee it will stay in place.

3.(c). Cut an internal groove in the die for an O-ring to retain the plug with a friction fit.

3.(d). Drill and tap a hole in the side of the top end of the die for a setscrew.

1 is the cheapest and simplest.

2 a little more expensive to make but less work for the end user. I haven't found an appropriate off-the-shelf reamer yet but I'm looking.

3a doubles the number of parts that have to be produced although they are fairly simple parts. If it's a drop-in part will it stay in place?

3b requires drilling and tapping the die and threading the OD of the plug for at least a short distance on one end.

3c would require me to buy a toolholder capable of cutting an internal groove in a 1/2" bore, and adds one more part (a small O-ring) to the parts list. It would make the plug a simpler part than 3b.

3d adds a third part but makes for a simple plug and die hole design. Might want to make plugs out of aluminum. I've never been wild about having setscrews bear against plastic.

Have I missed any alternatives? Any thoughts or preferences? What's more important to you, low cost even if you have to do more work, or a little higher price for a more "sophisticated" product.

If I can get the right reamer 2 would not be much more cost than 1. 3a, 3b, and 3c will cost more than 1 or 2, with cost going up for each in the order listed. 3d requires another machine be used to D/T the side hole but if retention is required this would be the simplest and lowest cost option.

See how many questions there are when deciding even the simplest features and part configuration(s)? I'm trying to include the end user in the decision making process. I read here and elsewhere that people are little perturbed at times when they don't feel like "business" pays attention to their needs or offer the features they want. I feel way that about numerous products and services - now's the chance, I'm listening.