Source of lead impinged by local laws.

[KeithB]

For non-magnum pistol rounds I've found that straight COWWs is entirely satisfactory. I used to use a #2 type alloy for handgun rounds and still keep some around. I used it because the added tin seemed to make casting easier but have found out that mold temperature makes more difference to filling out well. Wouldn't hesitate to use it if I needed to but usually don't need it.

Other folks here know a lot more about alloys for high pressure loads, but I try not to overthink things for casual handgun shooting.

 

[RBHarter]

I got a little hunk of lead from some tear out cast iron plumbing Friday . My MIL walks every day picks up 1-2# of WW . My folks picked a lot of scrap and a little good stuff . I have in the neighborhood 2500# on hand here less than $100 in it acquired over 2.5 years , I hauled about 1000# of it in 2 trips .

 

[fiver]

just keep an eye open for anything you can find right now.
take soft, hard, whatever,, keep it sorted.
it will take a little time to figure out what to do with it all, but you can get by just fine with anything resembling the lowly ww for almost anything that needs done with lead.

the other alloys have their uses, making holes in paper at 25yds at 800 fps isn't really one of them.

 

[Mitty38]

#2 is way harder than you need for most cast shooting, especially just starting out. Forget Bhn and start thinking about size and pressure curves.

Totally agree, was planing on starting off with range scrap with my 38 special. and also round ball with pure lead.
Just that #2 would be the next step, after straight wheel weight, then 16 to 1. Mostly due to limited space and the need to pack things away while working on other things. Wanted to get all my lead ready and into various stockpiles of ingot before I even start making bullets. Figured since I currently have a good local source for soft lead and for range scrap.
I would have Lyman 2 back for when the day came.
When spring comes and I am stopping by the range just about every sunny day, things can progress pretty fast for me,as far as going down rabbit holes.
I also pick 2 bullets out of the bank for every one I shoot,Keeps me in continually increasing pile of range scrap.

 

[fiver]

if you wanna get to just about number-2 alloy with ww's that old formula won't get you there.
in the 70's it was right close, by the late 90's through 2010 heh! no.

when you get to needing it [like that day you start burning 45-47grs of powder in a 308 or 30-06 case] I will give you my super secret recipe [the same one everybody else here already knows] to get a real nice maybe even better than Ly#-2 alloy.
depending on the bullet design your using you won't even want it full strength and will probably cut it 50-50 or even 100% with WW alloy.

 

[Mitty38]

Ok, so basically, make 1 lb and half lb ingot of all my materials, unmolested.
Now I also had a thought for the Tin pewter. Since I will not be mixing it for #2.
Figure the loose pewter I have, I can just cut or bust in small pieces or leave some of the smaller pieces in their original form. To add to a pot of range lead or lead that will not fill out, the mold.

What should I do with my big 5 lb tin brick then? Maybe just go ahead and make 10-1 or 16-1 with it?
I want it to be usable for bullet making when the time comes. Should I mix it with some pure lead and put it in 1/2 lb ingot, so it will mix well and I can alloy it easier later, if it is needed?

 

[fiver]

melt it in the pot and cast some bullets with it. [open the sprue plate quickly or don't fill the cavity all the way]
then you'll have little tin nuggets you can add as necessary.
you can also just ladle pour some small thin ingots.
a 20 lb pot only holds like 18 lbs.
1lb of tin will be 1% to 100 lbs,,, you only need an ingot that weighs 2.5-3 ounces per pot realistically.
the key isn't so much the how much, the key is it being the same each time.

as part of my big batch process I weigh out my alloy for the second melt/mix and add my tin in after I have cleaned it, ladle it out and put the next batch in the pot.

 

[Bret4207]

If I had 5 lbs of good tin, I'd cut it up into 1 lbs sections, or mould it in 1 lbs ingots, and trade away 3 or 4 lbs of it for something you really need.

This isn't directed at you Mitty so much as to every new caster- FORGET BHN!!!! Forget "HARDCAST". Forget the seemingly common sense theory that harder just has to be better. You will never, ever be able to make up an alloy that lets you treat cast bullets like jacketed bullets. It's apples and computers. Yes, an apple and a computer may share the same name, but that's about the end of it. I imagine every caster goes through the phase where he thinks the Bhn# is the answer. I know for a fact I did for several years. Talk about chasing rabbits down expensive holes! You don't need tin until you know you need tin because you've exhausted all other avenues- namely getting the darn mould up to temp. You don't need antimony, arsenic or any of the other trace elements until you've proved you do. In short, there's is nothing you can purchase, beg, borrow or steal that takes the place of casting them up and shooting them to see whatcha got.

 

[Ian]

Right on, Bret. I find a bump in tin and antimony is awful nice with some bullet designs starting at about 2200 fps. Some bullet designs don't need it until about 2600. Was is Dean Grennell who wrote something to the effect of "If it looks even vaguely 'plumbous', I'll try to make a bullet out of it"? That's my MO for pistol stuff in the 700-1100 fps range.

 

[Bret4207]

Up to 15-1600 in rifles larger than 30 cal for me!

 

[Mitty38]

My .357 will probably be the only thing I will be casting for till spring, as I have plenty of range lead and have found with low velocity and alox it pretty much spits out, with no leading, anything I have so far put in it, form .358 to .360. Now I have just started experimenting with .357 loads, so that may change. Now my 30-06 does not like .309 factory 14 BNH till I get at over 1400 fps. It leads the very beginning of the rife lings.
It has a tight bore (under a little over .307 by slug method, but I believe the chamber to bore transition area,may be a little big (have not slugged it yet)So I think a softer lead and or a little larger bullet, may just allow me to go subsonic, in that case. We will find that out in the spring..
Also hearing the horror stories I do not think I will be going cast for the .223 yet. That looks like it could be a bottomless rabbit hole. I have about 2000 practice rounds back for it, and a great specific hunting load developed any way.

 

[fiver]

223 was one of the easiest go fast calibers I've tried.
maybe not 30-30 or 358 easy, but for sure much easier than the 308.
it's actually hard to not go fast in the 223, 4grs of red dot is like 2100 fps.
the hard part was finding a moderate [like around 2800 fps] load that operates an AR rifle platform 100% of the time.

 

[Bret4207]

Mitty, measure the ID of a case shot in your rifle with a full power load jacketed load. It might be, for instance, .311. That is where I would start regardless of what your slugging indicates. .309 is pretty darn skinny for cast in any US made 30 cal. In a Schmit-Rubin, yeah, but not in a Remington/Winchester/Savage. You want to put as fat a bullet as you can, as far into the throat as you can while still feeding and let the barrel size it. Your .309 may be a tight spot that may or may not give you issues. A .309 bullet in a .311 throat is going to go .002 to one side of the throat or the other unless you get lucky and have it centered perfectly in the chamber...and no one is that lucky. The reason that bullet starts performing better at 1400fps is because you smacked it int he rear end hard enough (pressure) to cause it to obturate (rivet/swell) enough to get better dynamic fit.

Remember this- With cast bullets, fatter will shoot better 99.9 percent of the time.

 

[fiver]

even the schmit-ruben will take 310 no problem.
their issue is the no-throat, that's why the GP-11 ammo was 2 diameter like the original 264 win ammo was.

 

[Bret4207]

Give me a break, I'm old! I knew there was a reason I wasn hanging onto my RG4 with the .298 nose...

 

[Mitty38]

Mitty, measure the ID of a case shot in your rifle with a full power load jacketed load. It might be, for instance, .311.

Using a proper old school micrometer and gauge set, and not my harbor freight digital calipers.
Just measured the ID of 10 federal non- typical 180 grain shot in my 30-06 they measured from .3093 to .3098
The rifle is a savage axis BTW. So I am guessing a .310 to. 314 bullet??

 

[Rick]

in my 30-06 they measured from .3093 to .3098
The rifle is a savage axis BTW. So I am guessing a .310 to. 314 bullet??

Were it me they would be sized .311" minimum, even better with .312". Given your measurements I would take .311" as standard.

 

[462]

My ex-1898 Krag (and actually made in '98) measured .309", which I understand was more the rule than the exception, and bullets sized to .311" shot exceptionally well, and much better than .308" jacketed bullets.
Both K-31s favored very short seated 311291s sized .310".

 

[Ian]

SAAMI specifies minimum .3108" for the throat entrance and .342" if I recall correctly for the front of the chamber. If your brass is .0135" maximum thickness then you can safely chamber and fire a .314" bullet with the appropriate bare minimum allowance. If you don't want to leave a bunch of your bullet as a lead ring at the end of the chamber, stick with .310" for sizing and seat snug the bullet's front shoulder up against the big 3⁰ funnel of a throat.

 

[fiver]

Emmett.
focus on your 38 and casting alloy for now.
here in a bit we will get you some stuff in hand and some easy to assemble loads.

while your out and about the next month or so get a couple of Lbs. of IMR-4064.