Source of lead impinged by local laws.

[Bret4207]

Using a proper old school micrometer and gauge set, and not my harbor freight digital calipers.
Just measured the ID of 10 federal non- typical 180 grain shot in my 30-06 they measured from .3093 to .3098
The rifle is a savage axis BTW. So I am guessing a .310 to. 314 bullet??

At least .310. This is the next step where you have to try and see what will chamber and how fat you can go. You're going to have to watch what happens during seating. You don't want to "squish" the bullet in seating. You might end up having to use some form of "M" type die to expand the neck a bit, but at least you have an idea of where you can start.

I've said for some time that a fired case indicates how fat a bullet you can easily use, but that's wrong. I've fumbled the wording on what I was thinking. It's an indication of where you can start. Go no smaller than that for sure. I failed to factor in brass spring back and crimp and some other stuff- my bad. I think I have the right idea to pass on to a noobie, I just didn't carry the explanation out to the end.

 

[fiver]

the other thing to think about is shoving a 31whatever bullet into a 307-8 hole
you got a lot of lead movement to account for at that point.
you do anyway, adding more doesn't help.
sizing down a 313 bullet to say 310 will show you what I mean, do it again to 308 in a size die and you'll really understand alloy flow better.
now that you've wiped the drive bands out throw in the factor of engraving it with the lands and you'll see how much more you need to move, and where it has to go.

get a mold to pour to 310ish and size/check to 310 and your putting a pristine bullet into the little funnel we call a throat.
why even go that big?
well your throat opening is that big and your encompassing the bullet with similar shapes and angles so it's best choice is to follow the angles into the barrel smoothly.

remember the centerline thing I always talk about.
get that.
put the bullet in it and guide it into place in the long skinny hole before accelerating it along.

 

[Mitty38]

while your out and about the next month or so get a couple of Lbs. of IMR-4064.

.223 AR15 loads? 308 clone loads for the 30-06?
DARN YOU LAMAR! Leading me along like a donkey with a carrot on a stick.

 

[Rick]

DARN YOU LAMAR! Leading me along like a donkey with a carrot on a stick.

There are no enablers here!

No wait . . . That's wrong . . . Everybody here is an enabler.

Make that an 8 pounder of 4064 and there are several other powders that will serve you well.

 

[Mitty38]

Just got hold of some cast bullets that are .312 to .314 dia. will be nice to experiment with once I empty my current brass.

 

[Ian]

Bret, you're actually correct in saying that the neck ID of a case fired with a full load is typically the max bullet diameter you can use, but some crimp usually remains and accurate measurements are hard to get unless you bell the mouth again and measure the front third of the the neck ID. A full-power rifle load should absolutely flatten the case neck to the chamber walls and the springback should be predictable enough with any cartridge to end up about .001-2" smaller due to the elastic limits of all cartridge brass. I have no idea why Mitty's brass was measuring so small, usually a .30-'06 has a fired neck ID somewhere between .311" and .313". Maybe his chamber neck IS that small, or he measured the crimped mouth instead of inside the neck, or something else is going on. Need to find out for sure, because if the neck IS too small, there will be a problem trying to chamber and fire bullets sized anything over .310".

 

[fiver]

and changing brass brands will be a nightmare.

I have the can't use 310 cast with these cases, but can use 308, problem with my 300 B.O. now.
I'm not sitting and neck cutting 300 cases, but a tight neck 0-6 rifle would be a blessing to me, and a nightmare for many others.

now your seeing why I was saying work on your lead and the 38 for now.
then we can do a step by step on your 0-6 and I can get some stuff in your hands so you can pick up on a lot of the questions you have now and answer many of them easy enough yourself.
you'll then have stuff we know, you'll have answers to our questions, and we will all know what each other is talking about.

 

[Mitty38]

Going to slow down a bit, I believe I am getting ahead of myself a bit going to concentrate on gathering lead, loading what I have and getting some ingot made, then some range scrap .358 bullet casting.
But....

while your out and about the next month or so get a couple of Lbs. of IMR-4064.

You mean this stuff??
Well I have 1 lb..

 

[fiver]

that's the stuff.. kind of small LOL,,,but it will be enough to get you started with both lead and jacketed bullets just fine.
as we go along your gonna find us talking about certain rifle powders that work better than others for a reason.
RL-7, IMR 3031 [4895] and 4064 are some of them.
they have pressure rises that are smooth and predictable across a wide range of cartridges. [sometimes they need some help]
your also gonna see some combinations that make you go WTH are they talking about?
there ain't no damn way you can use 4831 in a 30-30 or a 308, and then a minute later your gonna think but,,, wait why don't I see any discussion on using it in the 30-06 where it should be a fit.

 

[Mitty38]

I have no idea why Mitty's brass was measuring so small, usually a .30-'06 has a fired neck ID somewhere between .311" and .313". Maybe his chamber neck IS that small, or he measured the crimped mouth instead of inside the neck, or something else is going on. .

That.
I did not realize that measuring the crimp was improper. I'll have to go back to the storage unit and get my good set of mics and calipers again (have a lot of stuff stored till I get till the new Mini barn gets approved then built) .
Headed back to work for 4 12's tomorrow so might not be till next week now.

 

[RBHarter]

IMR 4350 . If it's 32 or under it's a ticket .

 

[Mitty38]

IMR 4350 . If it's 32 or under it's a ticket .

Cost
$31.99 + tax, so $34. Just down the street a mile. Where I go for a Tuesday evening, gun guy bs session, and a cup or 2 of bad coffee every week.
Of course there went my weekly allowance.

 

[fiver]

more like 25$ by the 8lb jug.
long term bulk buys pay off in the end.

 

[Mitty38]

more like 25$ by the 8lb jug.
long term bulk buys pay off in the end.

But the $28 hazmat fee puts it back to about the same price. And you still have to pay sales tax on internet purchases, in our state by law even if they do not take it out.
However I can get the big jug locally for $225 plus tax. So it would save me a bit if I had a way of comming up with that kind of cash.

 

[RBHarter]

I think I gave 182.63 +tax for the last 8# jug 198 I think just 6 short yr ago . I think maybe I don't shoot enough .

 

[fiver]

ask the guy sown at the LGS what he'd charge.
if he is getting 1 lb containers an 8lb'er would be just another tick in the ledger.
1 jug a year is like 800 rounds of shooting.

 

[Mitty38]

Is 27 bucks total, too much to pay for 50 new Remington 30-06 brass? Not getting
them now but might be picking them up next payday? I could start looking for range brass but would they be consistent?.

 

[fiver]

no, but they are good enough after you work them over.
but you don't need them.
as soon as we figure out your chamber dimensions you'll be in good shape for a while.

I always pick up any good brass I find.
if it isn't needed by me someone will want it, and a trade, other cases, or a pass along can be made.

 

[Bret4207]

Bret, you're actually correct in saying that the neck ID of a case fired with a full load is typically the max bullet diameter you can use, but some crimp usually remains and accurate measurements are hard to get unless you bell the mouth again and measure the front third of the the neck ID. A full-power rifle load should absolutely flatten the case neck to the chamber walls and the springback should be predictable enough with any cartridge to end up about .001-2" smaller due to the elastic limits of all cartridge brass. I have no idea why Mitty's brass was measuring so small, usually a .30-'06 has a fired neck ID somewhere between .311" and .313". Maybe his chamber neck IS that small, or he measured the crimped mouth instead of inside the neck, or something else is going on. Need to find out for sure, because if the neck IS too small, there will be a problem trying to chamber and fire bullets sized anything over .310".

I get what you're saying. What I forgot to work into the mix in my statement was spring back and crimps and the fact that using an M type die you can go fatter until the case walls jam against the chamber. .001-.002 spring back is certainly possible and not adding that might lead people to believe that if it measures, say, .310, thats all they can do. It's Misleading and typical of when I think something through but forget to write the whole thought out. And we didn't even mention work hardened brass and annealing, etc. In retrospect, my advice sucked.

 

[fiver]

it does give you a quick and dirty yeah I can work with 31whatever though.

it's like the shove the nose in the muzzle thing.
we all know the throat isn't shaped like the muzzle but I bet we have all taken a bullet and stuck it in there then went oooh that's tight, and then don't even think about why the very end of the nose has barely a scuff on it when we chamber the round.

it's those types of things that make some of us wonder when we see them though.
and that's what leads to the next step and the next and the next.