Subsonic .223 in my AR-15
- Thread starter Ian
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
the shoulder shape/angle was changed slightly too.
it's supposed to work out that one round will chamber in both, and one of them won't,
most die sets will have both names on them, since you can just push the shoulder back a hair for the case to chamber in both.[something like .001 or less]
I remember some brands of the early die sets not quite working in the 300 because they were cut for the whisper and they didn't quite push the shoulder down quite right for the BO.
it's supposed to work out that one round will chamber in both, and one of them won't,
most die sets will have both names on them, since you can just push the shoulder back a hair for the case to chamber in both.[something like .001 or less]
I remember some brands of the early die sets not quite working in the 300 because they were cut for the whisper and they didn't quite push the shoulder down quite right for the BO.
wquiles
Well-Known Member
OK, talked to my daughter just now. Had her try these (just dry firing, operating the controls, to see what she would like):
- The V24 Mauser (bolt action)
- The 300Blk AR15 Pistol
- The 308 AR10 Rifle
Results - remember she shoots weekly an olympic 10M air rifle, and her custom 10/22 at the range with me:
- She not only does not care for the bolt action, she found it too hard/unnatural. And she has no interest in learning to use it either.
- The 300Blk AR15 she liked best. Simpler, similar (semi-auto) to her 10/22, not too big/heavy.
- Surprisingly, except for the much heavier bolt spring (which she felt too much/harder than the AR15), she liked the AR10 platform as well. She said weight would not matter since we always shoot from the bench anyways at the range.
We also talked about the difficulty in seeing the tiny/small 22 caliber bullet holes at 100 yards through the scope, and I told her we could step to at least 30 caliber which makes it much easier to spot at 100yards through the scope, without much more recoil. She agreed to go with a larger diameter bullet (I showed her the 30 caliber cast I had on hand).
Since she liked the AR's, we also discussed operating the charging handle each time, for each shot - since that was an option from what Ian found out about subsonics on the AR platform. She almost gave me this "are you crazy?" look. So no, whatever I setup, needs to cycle reliable on its own
Now, she is picky due to her Olympic air rifle, and she likes small groups, so whatever I setup for her, needs to shoot relatively soft/medium, and group really well at 100 yards for her not to get frustrated. But it is obvious it will be an AR platform for her
Since at this point the only loads I got for the AR10 are the full power loads, I rather she tries out first the AR15 300BLK pistol platform and see how she likes it from the bench. The pistol brace on the 300blk pistol is not as comfy as a true rifle stock, but it would at least let her try the platform with something that does not have as much recoil as the 308.
If she really likes the AR15, I can simply convert the other AR15 I have (223) to 300BLK with a barrel swap and setup/adjust that rifle to "her".
- The V24 Mauser (bolt action)
- The 300Blk AR15 Pistol
- The 308 AR10 Rifle
Results - remember she shoots weekly an olympic 10M air rifle, and her custom 10/22 at the range with me:
- She not only does not care for the bolt action, she found it too hard/unnatural. And she has no interest in learning to use it either.
- The 300Blk AR15 she liked best. Simpler, similar (semi-auto) to her 10/22, not too big/heavy.
- Surprisingly, except for the much heavier bolt spring (which she felt too much/harder than the AR15), she liked the AR10 platform as well. She said weight would not matter since we always shoot from the bench anyways at the range.
We also talked about the difficulty in seeing the tiny/small 22 caliber bullet holes at 100 yards through the scope, and I told her we could step to at least 30 caliber which makes it much easier to spot at 100yards through the scope, without much more recoil. She agreed to go with a larger diameter bullet (I showed her the 30 caliber cast I had on hand).
Since she liked the AR's, we also discussed operating the charging handle each time, for each shot - since that was an option from what Ian found out about subsonics on the AR platform. She almost gave me this "are you crazy?" look. So no, whatever I setup, needs to cycle reliable on its own
Now, she is picky due to her Olympic air rifle, and she likes small groups, so whatever I setup for her, needs to shoot relatively soft/medium, and group really well at 100 yards for her not to get frustrated. But it is obvious it will be an AR platform for her
Since at this point the only loads I got for the AR10 are the full power loads, I rather she tries out first the AR15 300BLK pistol platform and see how she likes it from the bench. The pistol brace on the 300blk pistol is not as comfy as a true rifle stock, but it would at least let her try the platform with something that does not have as much recoil as the 308.
If she really likes the AR15, I can simply convert the other AR15 I have (223) to 300BLK with a barrel swap and setup/adjust that rifle to "her".
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wquiles
Well-Known Member
Not to continue to take over this thread from Ian, but since I started here ....
My daughter and I went to the range. I sighted the rifle with some left-over Sierra Jackated bullets, and then moved to the cast handloads. I had the 300blk pistol with supersonics (180's at about 1450fps) and subsonics. She didn't like the recoil of the supersonics at all. Even though it is fairly low, she was not expecting the "strong" recoil. Luckily I had the subsonics, so we tried those:
For the subsonics, I remember Ian's advice at trying to have about 8-10K at the port to cycle the action, so I prepared 5x rounds with 10.6 IMR 4227 and 5x rounds with 10.5gr H110, which per QL have right at 9-10K PSI at the port. As per Ian's prediction, the 300blk pistol reliably cycled every shot, and even remained open after the last shot. Of course this means it is over-gassed for supersonics, but it is great to know what works with both "as is" - thanks Ian!
By the time she was done shooting the subsonic rounds, she was more calmed again, and enjoying herself, so after I started shooting the .358 Mauser (also with subsonics) I asked her if she wanted to try a few rounds - just to try. The Mauser's bolt is not "friendly" and heavy, so she didn't like it at all, but she liked shooting the Mauser with the Timney trigger - well enough to get this 3x shot group at 50 yards for her first time ever shooting this rifle:
She decided to keep trying the 300blk, but with subsonics only. I don't mind at all, plus it will be great to get her to learn the AR15 as well
My daughter and I went to the range. I sighted the rifle with some left-over Sierra Jackated bullets, and then moved to the cast handloads. I had the 300blk pistol with supersonics (180's at about 1450fps) and subsonics. She didn't like the recoil of the supersonics at all. Even though it is fairly low, she was not expecting the "strong" recoil. Luckily I had the subsonics, so we tried those:
For the subsonics, I remember Ian's advice at trying to have about 8-10K at the port to cycle the action, so I prepared 5x rounds with 10.6 IMR 4227 and 5x rounds with 10.5gr H110, which per QL have right at 9-10K PSI at the port. As per Ian's prediction, the 300blk pistol reliably cycled every shot, and even remained open after the last shot. Of course this means it is over-gassed for supersonics, but it is great to know what works with both "as is" - thanks Ian!
By the time she was done shooting the subsonic rounds, she was more calmed again, and enjoying herself, so after I started shooting the .358 Mauser (also with subsonics) I asked her if she wanted to try a few rounds - just to try. The Mauser's bolt is not "friendly" and heavy, so she didn't like it at all, but she liked shooting the Mauser with the Timney trigger - well enough to get this 3x shot group at 50 yards for her first time ever shooting this rifle:
She decided to keep trying the 300blk, but with subsonics only. I don't mind at all, plus it will be great to get her to learn the AR15 as well
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Hawk
Well-Known Member
Bumping this thread to the top..
Seems like the powder used most in this thread was Titegroup.
I don't have any titegroup, but was wondering if anyone has used a different powder?
Maybe Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique or Universal.
I'm looking for the same results in the .223 but I only have the RCBS 22-55-SP mold.
Seems like the powder used most in this thread was Titegroup.
I don't have any titegroup, but was wondering if anyone has used a different powder?
Maybe Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique or Universal.
I'm looking for the same results in the .223 but I only have the RCBS 22-55-SP mold.
Ian
Notorious member
I have a ton of different powders but none have come close to delivering the accuracy and consistency that Titegroup has with subsonic loads in .223, .30-30, and.308. The stuff just doesn't seem to have any position sensitivity when using just a pinch in a big case. Bullseye is pretty good, I'd say second to Titegroup among the powders I've tried for this sort of thing, but it is slightly louder than Titegroup when suppressed.....that is to say it might be AS loud as the primer clinking against the firing pin instead of just hearing the clink.
Ian
Notorious member
I inherited some of a 4-pounder of e3 and have been meaning to try it stuff...but it's like what you said about Reloder 10, theres a bunch of stuff you already have just like it that works well. Maybe one of my kids will take an interest in handloading and we can have fun burning all these cans-o'this'n'that when new stuff is $100/lb.
fiver
Well-Known Member
remember there is no free lunch with gunpowder.
it [tite-group] excels at wide open spaces and quick pressure climbs so it burns clean.
so it also has the fault of even higher pressure excursions when it's confined.
I won't use the stuff in a 9mm.
I have before, but I won't now.
I love it for cowboy type loads in the 45 colt,
6grs under anything up to 260grs. is about as easy going as there is and it approximates black powder pressures right close,,,, with clean cases.
it [tite-group] excels at wide open spaces and quick pressure climbs so it burns clean.
so it also has the fault of even higher pressure excursions when it's confined.
I won't use the stuff in a 9mm.
I have before, but I won't now.
I love it for cowboy type loads in the 45 colt,
6grs under anything up to 260grs. is about as easy going as there is and it approximates black powder pressures right close,,,, with clean cases.