M3845708Bama
Active Member
H&G’s 68 with 231 powder is really hard to beat!
Suggestions for a good cast bullet for 45 ACP
- Thread starter Brother_Love
- Start date
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I recently discovered a couple of boxes of 45 acp that I loaded in my IPSC days. One box was H&G 68s, and the other was 452460s. The powder charge was the same for both 4.8 gr of the old Hodgdon Clays. Recoil was soft with those loads, and even though I was running an overload, I doubt they actually made major power factor. We never really enforced PF back in those days, but everybody tried to run respectably hot loads to show good character. I enjoyed shooting the old loads so much that I went out & bought a pound of Clays for old times sake. I need to empty some of my 45 acp loaded ammo so I can justify this project. I got bored last winter and overdid the reloading thing a bit, which left me with a lot of 230 gr 45 acp.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The problem with Clays in .45 ACP is that you run out of pressure limits before you get to major caliber loads.
It works fine for light loads, and I have shot a good bit of it that way.
Traded into an 8 lb cannister and MAN that goes a LONG way in pistols.
Hodgdon max is 888fps with a LSWC 200 gr, the old Major Caliber was 900 fps, so we shot 925 to
be sure. Current wimpified major is, IIRC, down to 165K, so this actually makes it safely.
For 230 cast, max is just under 800 fps, again, short of the normal 230 velocity of 825-840 fps.
Still reasonable loads, but Clays is a touch too fast and pressure spikey for .45 ACP.
Bill
It works fine for light loads, and I have shot a good bit of it that way.
Traded into an 8 lb cannister and MAN that goes a LONG way in pistols.
Hodgdon max is 888fps with a LSWC 200 gr, the old Major Caliber was 900 fps, so we shot 925 to
be sure. Current wimpified major is, IIRC, down to 165K, so this actually makes it safely.
For 230 cast, max is just under 800 fps, again, short of the normal 230 velocity of 825-840 fps.
Still reasonable loads, but Clays is a touch too fast and pressure spikey for .45 ACP.
Bill
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I think one issue is, if you EFF up and double charge will you just blow a case
and maybe crack some grips and dork a magazine, or blow the whole gun to
bits.
I am less confident with Clays than with TG, although perhaps asking Accuload what
double of 4.3 gr of Clays will do (in theory) compared to a double of 4.8 gr of TG, again,
in theory since each is a VERY unsafe. Maybe one is like 27Ksi and the other is like 45Ksi,
no idea. Not sure if AL calcs are reasonable out in the 'insane' pressure range.
Bill
and maybe crack some grips and dork a magazine, or blow the whole gun to
bits.
I am less confident with Clays than with TG, although perhaps asking Accuload what
double of 4.3 gr of Clays will do (in theory) compared to a double of 4.8 gr of TG, again,
in theory since each is a VERY unsafe. Maybe one is like 27Ksi and the other is like 45Ksi,
no idea. Not sure if AL calcs are reasonable out in the 'insane' pressure range.
Bill
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Ian
Notorious member
Clays is very spikey in the .45 ACP compared to even Bullseye. None of my measures meter Clays accurately enough for use on the progressive, ao I gave up on it. My FIL left me 16+ punds of it and it is stuck back for a "rainy day". Titegroup, Bullseye, and Universal aremy favorites. WW231 used to be the do-all best choice for any bullet you wanted to shoot powder, but not so much anymore if the four samples from recent years that I have are any indication. Still in the right burn rate, just not as clean ir consistent as it was 20 years ago.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I use mostly TG and BE in .45 ACP these days. Never have had any Universal, looks like just
like the long stocked Unique, so never bothered.
Yeah, Clays pressure is going up VERY steeply in .45 ACP as you reach the limits, that is clear.
I got a small sample bottle of Internantional (one of the form "Clays series") and there is literally
zero handgun data out there, only shotgun.
Any insight on that one? Seems like the normal range of shotgun powders are generally pretty
suitable for handgun use, but the total dearth of data has me spooked.
I need to ask Chris about it next time I see him. Amazingly knowledgeable about his products.
like the long stocked Unique, so never bothered.
Yeah, Clays pressure is going up VERY steeply in .45 ACP as you reach the limits, that is clear.
I got a small sample bottle of Internantional (one of the form "Clays series") and there is literally
zero handgun data out there, only shotgun.
Any insight on that one? Seems like the normal range of shotgun powders are generally pretty
suitable for handgun use, but the total dearth of data has me spooked.
I need to ask Chris about it next time I see him. Amazingly knowledgeable about his products.
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RBHarter
West Central AR
Some say shotguns are all about load stack length . I think , after considerable study of load data and effects of component change, that shotshell base/head inside design has a lot to do with how much pressure is generated and possibly how it is generated .
Remember too that that charge is confined if not compressed in a shot shell and there is zero air space . In case like the Fiocchi design it's very likely that the base half of the charge burns last while AA and RP tend to burn bottom to top and center out . That makes a difference in how the burn happens . In a pistol case the same powder could be anywhere from a full case , Unique in a 9mm E.G., to 1/4 vertical depth in the horizontal case , see 200 gr RNFP 45 Colts for an example .
Mechanically there's an obvious difference and some powders are less touchy about than others . Knowing what we know about Trail Boss would you put it in a shotgun ? Not a snowballs chance .
Remember too that that charge is confined if not compressed in a shot shell and there is zero air space . In case like the Fiocchi design it's very likely that the base half of the charge burns last while AA and RP tend to burn bottom to top and center out . That makes a difference in how the burn happens . In a pistol case the same powder could be anywhere from a full case , Unique in a 9mm E.G., to 1/4 vertical depth in the horizontal case , see 200 gr RNFP 45 Colts for an example .
Mechanically there's an obvious difference and some powders are less touchy about than others . Knowing what we know about Trail Boss would you put it in a shotgun ? Not a snowballs chance .
Ian
Notorious member
I agree with RB on the space thing. 473AA is another one with almost no handgun data, there are others as well. Some powders get erratic when not compressed.
On the other hand, Titegroup is spooky as heck in a metallic case when the load density begins to approach 100%, or even 80%, yet its primary use is in shotshell loads which MUST be compressed for safety. Not intuitive at all.
On the other hand, Titegroup is spooky as heck in a metallic case when the load density begins to approach 100%, or even 80%, yet its primary use is in shotshell loads which MUST be compressed for safety. Not intuitive at all.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
I cast my vote for Bullseye powder. This was the powder used to develope the round way back when and billions of arsenal and factory rounds have been loaded with it. It is all I use in the 45 ACP round. With any good 200 - 230 grains case bullet, 5.0 grains will give a full snort load and 4.5 grains will give an easy shooting load. Any properly set up 1911 will run on these like a spotted pony.
Yes, by all means taper crimp the bullet.
Yes, by all means taper crimp the bullet.
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JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I'm not expert or even an experienced 1911 shooter but I have the LEE 230gr round nose ( only because when I got my 1911 Remington I wanted a bullet that looked like the military bullet.
My pistol shoots very well with this projectile. Not the best protection bullet but it is all I have and it works well and shoots accurately
My pistol shoots very well with this projectile. Not the best protection bullet but it is all I have and it works well and shoots accurately
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
It is very hard to argue against Alliant/Hercules Bullseye for the 45 ACP, as Charles has laid out the recipe. It works very well. The powder's ONLY "negative" for me has been its tendency to react chemically with the material that my RCBS powder measure hoppers are made from. BE etches the interior surfaces slightly, and sticks to same a bit after the hopper is emptied back into its OEM flasks. WW-231 does not have that trait--so 231 gets the call for those tasks.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
I have a battery of Lyman 55s, perminatly set for 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, 4.5, 5.0 and 6.5 (45 Colt) grains of Bulleye and I don't have any problem using Bulleye in them. I do have an RCBS Little Dandy and it has never given me problem with BE. These charges cover my loading for the 32 Long, 38 S&W, 38 Special, 357 Mag., 44 Special, 45 AR, 45 ACP, 45 Cowboy Special and 45 Colt. I use a weight to keep pressure on the powder and get very uniform charges. I have a long stencil brush, I use to brush loose any powder sticking to the interior of any measure. It all goes back into the powder container. I have been brushing out the inside of measures for 50 years, so I don't give it any thought. I try and keep things simple, it must be a German thing. 
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Sold all of mine except the Harrell's with polycarbonate removeable bottles. Still will discolor if you try to leave Bullseye stored in them.