The 350 Legend
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
And how would a 30x39 be different than a 7.62x39? Seems like a.308 instead of
.310 bullet and you are there, but probably not.....or there wouldn't be a different name.
And way better than a .355 bullet in a .357 barrel.
Which seems to be the defacto standard for a significant number of 9mm handguns.
Bill
.310 bullet and you are there, but probably not.....or there wouldn't be a different name.
And way better than a .355 bullet in a .357 barrel.
Which seems to be the defacto standard for a significant number of 9mm handguns.
Bill
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Colt .38 Spl and .357 revolvers usually had a .355 bbl, at least at the muzzle and often
the whole thing, from "friends who know" - not from personal measurements, so always
a caveat emptor.
So I guess this is technically a 9x45. Definitely outclasses the 9x23.
Bill
the whole thing, from "friends who know" - not from personal measurements, so always
a caveat emptor.
So I guess this is technically a 9x45. Definitely outclasses the 9x23.
Bill
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The author of the quote you shared will likely do that on his barrels. The throat/ball seat is what I was more concerned with regarding dimensions, but he'll fix that too. He's been committed to seeing this one through and has seemed excited about it. He'll make it work but I was hoping for a factory gun I wouldn't have to have corrected ($$$) before shooting it. I've had both .355" and .357" groove diameters shoot .358" and .359" bullets just fine, but they were able to chamber just fine. I've had a couple tight bores that didn't like .358" too though.
Before Ohio started the rifles in pistol cartridge rules, I was looking for a CZ527 or Zastava "Mini-Mauser" to build something like a 9x39 or 358 Gremlin. Once the law took 'hold, I figured I'd just buy what I could use for hunting and have a fun 35 I could also hunt with.
There's something about the 35s and cast that appeals to me. 38 Special, 357 Mag., 357 Max., 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 35 Whelen,... I skipped the 350 Remington Mag and numerous wildcats. Glenn has an article on LASC about using one bullet for all those 35s which I have enjoyed several times now.
OK, my mouth (keyboard) is just running on momentum from the initial excitement now. I'm veering way off course.
OH! A relevant point - Notice the shape of the factory ammo's bullets? I'm betting (conjecture again) those bullets have to be shaped like that to get the cartridge feed. A lot of bullets we like and cast might be difficult in this application. In a single-shot, no problem, but this is definitely a repeater cartridge or it would be a tenth of an inch shorter and have a rim.
Ian
Notorious member
You run into this with 45 wildcats too, 452" vs. .458", choose which it will be based on expected velocity......and availability of appropriate jacketed hunting/target/whatever bullets. I don't see too many premium 9mm, 200-grain hunting bullets being available for use at 1800 fps+ impact velocity.
todd
Well-Known Member
sometime this fall, "i want"
either a cz527 or a psa ks47 in 7.62x39. i was looking in the long term, would i want another cz527 or a complete upper in 358x39? (358 grendel/358 ARk/ 358 gremlin.....)? all "i want" to do is neck up the 7.62x39 or 6.5 grendel to .358", chamfer it and i'm done. the 350 legend may well be a legend, but i don't think so.
fiver
Well-Known Member
you gotta give them props for trying though.
what was the last new round Winchester come out with?
the 375 back in the 70's maybe?
I like the idea and what they are trying to do here, IMO they should have kept the rim added another .10 to the 358 max, and done this on an 900$ lever gun chassis capable of being scoped.
something like their old XTR line.
what was the last new round Winchester come out with?
the 375 back in the 70's maybe?
I like the idea and what they are trying to do here, IMO they should have kept the rim added another .10 to the 358 max, and done this on an 900$ lever gun chassis capable of being scoped.
something like their old XTR line.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but...... Win does not make leverguns any more, only the ones for collectors that they
farm out to Miroku.
Ian nails it - limited 9mm bullet selection means the .355 choice is silly when there are a lot of
good .357 bullets out there already for existing cartridges.
Bill
farm out to Miroku.
Ian nails it - limited 9mm bullet selection means the .355 choice is silly when there are a lot of
good .357 bullets out there already for existing cartridges.
Bill
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You would think even the firearms marketing folks would wise up and look at the history of failed cartridges (not that this will necessarily fail) and use that information to make wiser decisions. Not to bash "young people," but it seems a trend today to ignore history and to award improperly weighted value to just "ideas" - what pops into one's head without empirical knowledge or research into what has and hasn't worked.
Looking at the perks touted by Winchester, the important points don't look that pertinent to me, but then, it comes back to more people buying ammo than reloading it (and especially casting), so maybe they know their market and a decent run of a few years is their goal, wit the eventual objective of obsolescence making room for the next "latest-greatest."
I believe the bullet shape will dictate all new bullets anyway, and most of the existing 357 and 358 bullets may not feed well in repeaters, so the difference in diameter becomes a moot point. The bigger part of the market seems to be enamored with newer boutique bullets anyway, at least fom what I see in the myriad offerings of "premium," and "new and improved" bullets to cure all other deficiencies.
I could be full of beans though too.
Looking at the perks touted by Winchester, the important points don't look that pertinent to me, but then, it comes back to more people buying ammo than reloading it (and especially casting), so maybe they know their market and a decent run of a few years is their goal, wit the eventual objective of obsolescence making room for the next "latest-greatest."
I believe the bullet shape will dictate all new bullets anyway, and most of the existing 357 and 358 bullets may not feed well in repeaters, so the difference in diameter becomes a moot point. The bigger part of the market seems to be enamored with newer boutique bullets anyway, at least fom what I see in the myriad offerings of "premium," and "new and improved" bullets to cure all other deficiencies.
I could be full of beans though too.
Dpmsman
Active Member
Good morning,
This is my first post here so I hope to not make a fool of myself.
Anyone that is interested in this round should really go over to mad dog weapons systems. They have done quite a bit of work with the wildcat version of this the 357 max AR. They offer custom prefit barrels for Savage bolt guns as well as Ar-15’s. I built an AR 15 in this caliber and it’s been a great cast gun for me. I have been shooting the MP 220 grain round nose flat point bullet at about 1900 ft./s out of my 16 inch barrel. I did have to modify the m
agazine a bit but with the new 350 legend magazines coming out it should be just a barrel swap, new mag and go for the AR.
This is my first post here so I hope to not make a fool of myself.
Anyone that is interested in this round should really go over to mad dog weapons systems. They have done quite a bit of work with the wildcat version of this the 357 max AR. They offer custom prefit barrels for Savage bolt guns as well as Ar-15’s. I built an AR 15 in this caliber and it’s been a great cast gun for me. I have been shooting the MP 220 grain round nose flat point bullet at about 1900 ft./s out of my 16 inch barrel. I did have to modify the m
agazine a bit but with the new 350 legend magazines coming out it should be just a barrel swap, new mag and go for the AR.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I rethought the 375 win thing.
they actually brought out the 17 win 'short' mag rim fire round what? 5-6 years back.
I was gonna buy one so I could have the empty cases to make 7mm bullets from, and a somewhat cheap 3-4oz varmint shooter.
then I seen the price of the ammo, and realized I was making 223 rounds cheaper.
aaand I really didn't need another swage die set, especially one with a 300$ die for knocking the rim off a case I probably couldn't get in 5 years.
this round is generating quite a bit of talk around the internet.
about 90-95% of it is meh 'not me' talk, and a strong 1-2 proponents for it in each discussion.
the ones that are for it are usually ones that have the wildcat and would be happy to have one that worked all the time, or they have a good one and have found a niche for the round in their outdoor activity's.
they actually brought out the 17 win 'short' mag rim fire round what? 5-6 years back.
I was gonna buy one so I could have the empty cases to make 7mm bullets from, and a somewhat cheap 3-4oz varmint shooter.
then I seen the price of the ammo, and realized I was making 223 rounds cheaper.
aaand I really didn't need another swage die set, especially one with a 300$ die for knocking the rim off a case I probably couldn't get in 5 years.
this round is generating quite a bit of talk around the internet.
about 90-95% of it is meh 'not me' talk, and a strong 1-2 proponents for it in each discussion.
the ones that are for it are usually ones that have the wildcat and would be happy to have one that worked all the time, or they have a good one and have found a niche for the round in their outdoor activity's.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Those who hunt deer in the states with the rules on straight cases and do not handload
may be a big enough market to sustain it. AR deer rifles are a thing.
That is fine to me, too, I am not against it, but I am not in that situation, can use one
of many normal rifles for deer here.
Bill
may be a big enough market to sustain it. AR deer rifles are a thing.
That is fine to me, too, I am not against it, but I am not in that situation, can use one
of many normal rifles for deer here.
Bill
I concur with Bill and Fiver. I'm on the fence but leaning heavily to the "not me" side, but we'll see. Part of slimming my personal battery involved making a lot of compromises, to include deferring to more commonality in components, moulds, dies, etc. and more common cases. This way, I never have to worry about raising funds for another new gun or tooling (yeah,... laugh) and could afford to shoot even if I were in a zero-income state for a period of time, or if components dried up again.
I really could rationalize this either into or out of my battery pretty easily - if it were in a CZ 527. Not a thing wrong with Howa's new short-short action, but it would take the adorable little Mauser remake to shift me off center.
Fiver,
When did they come out with the WSSM cartridges? I have ignored the "Ultra-Short" and "Super-Short" Magnums except to know they came out, but those are pretty new.
Bill,
BIG thing in the "straight-wall" states, and I bet there's a lot of guys who bought an AR just because they were sure they'd be banned and don't know what to do with it now. A new upper could make them happy.
RB,
I had the same thoughts about a Carcano, or maybe a Mauser single-stack, but never looked at the pressures just because it would be a lot of work I just don't have time for any more. Would be a neat project and it seems no one loves Carcanos even as other previously less desirable milsurps have really jumped in price. I remember when Rolling Blocks were cheap and not terribly well thought of. Krags too. When I think Carcano, I think Rodney Dangerfield.
I really could rationalize this either into or out of my battery pretty easily - if it were in a CZ 527. Not a thing wrong with Howa's new short-short action, but it would take the adorable little Mauser remake to shift me off center.
Fiver,
When did they come out with the WSSM cartridges? I have ignored the "Ultra-Short" and "Super-Short" Magnums except to know they came out, but those are pretty new.
Bill,
BIG thing in the "straight-wall" states, and I bet there's a lot of guys who bought an AR just because they were sure they'd be banned and don't know what to do with it now. A new upper could make them happy.
RB,
I had the same thoughts about a Carcano, or maybe a Mauser single-stack, but never looked at the pressures just because it would be a lot of work I just don't have time for any more. Would be a neat project and it seems no one loves Carcanos even as other previously less desirable milsurps have really jumped in price. I remember when Rolling Blocks were cheap and not terribly well thought of. Krags too. When I think Carcano, I think Rodney Dangerfield.
Welcome, Dpmsman.
I think I recognize that handle from another forum. One thing we've started doing here is to share who you are/were on other forums. Not a rule, of course, but it helps making old connections.
Appreciate the tip. There are many AR shooters here. I slept, ate, breathed M16 for several years several years ago, so they just don't excite me personally. I'm no Cowboy Action shooter either but am thankful for what their demand did for a lot of guns I like. The AR crowd, I think, help in that way too, so more power to the AR innovations.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I had a $15 yard sale , sat in the back of the garage for 10 yr , gun smith practice piece , 41' Tierney with no sights and anything to hook them to filled ,polished or removed including anything over about 1-16 twist .....
I used the 6.8 as a base and necked it up to 7mm for a really inexpensive barrel . Turns out it's a really nice rifle and a 20" you really can't get any more out of the case . Very limited number of cartridge heads that fit it . Huntingtons still has a set of dies for a 1 thread setback called a 6.5-35 Rem . Seems like a guy with 338 FC , 308 , 7-08' , and a set of Carcano dies should be able to get there too . Armed with that it seems like a good bed for anything you could make out of 35 Rem and under 308 length . The Germans in Africa also used a bunch of them converted to 7.92×57 so action strength is second to ........well they're stronger than a 325/340 . Larger barrel thread than a 98 , 3rd lug bolt handle and the perfect home for a scout scope , red dot or holo sight on the front ring or even the barrel .
Clips well there's the fly if ever there was . Guys want as much as $10 ea sometimes you find them 4 for $20 loaded and sometimes a guy just gives you some because they got no clue what they are . I have about 20 .
I used the 6.8 as a base and necked it up to 7mm for a really inexpensive barrel . Turns out it's a really nice rifle and a 20" you really can't get any more out of the case . Very limited number of cartridge heads that fit it . Huntingtons still has a set of dies for a 1 thread setback called a 6.5-35 Rem . Seems like a guy with 338 FC , 308 , 7-08' , and a set of Carcano dies should be able to get there too . Armed with that it seems like a good bed for anything you could make out of 35 Rem and under 308 length . The Germans in Africa also used a bunch of them converted to 7.92×57 so action strength is second to ........well they're stronger than a 325/340 . Larger barrel thread than a 98 , 3rd lug bolt handle and the perfect home for a scout scope , red dot or holo sight on the front ring or even the barrel .
Clips well there's the fly if ever there was . Guys want as much as $10 ea sometimes you find them 4 for $20 loaded and sometimes a guy just gives you some because they got no clue what they are . I have about 20 .