Velocity Limit with 50/50?

5shot

Active Member
It has been suggested that I switch to a 50/50 mix of WW and Pb for hunting, and I am curious how fast I can push this mix with a GC design in a good smooth barrel of moderate twist. My primary hunting rigs are a 35 Whelen with a 1:14 and a 308 with a 1:12. Both shoot VERY well with water dropped wheel weights, but that would give me zero expansion in game. I thought of trying air cooled WW, but it seems from what I have read that it would be too hard for much expansion as well. I push the WDWW pretty hard, so I know I'll have to do more load workup, the question being what kind of velocity can I shoot for?

Thoughts?
 
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waco

Springfield, Oregon
How fast do they need to be? How far are your hunting shots made at? 1800-2000fps I think would be just fine. 50/50 alloy that fits your rifle well and a good lube I'd think you would be just fine.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I've been running 75/25 WW-1 20 - 0.5 copper and water dropped . On target it behaves like ACWW and HTWW in the barrel .
I get 2100 in a 358 Win 1-14" with a 35-250 RCBS . In a 222 in 1-14 I get 2640 with groups at 100 yd at 3 dia for 5 shots and 4-5 dia groups for 10 shots .
I typically shoot 3 shots as if on a bad hit hunt , stop breathe and reset and shoot again . 3-2 or 3-3-3-1 . Let it set about 5 min after the first 6 usually muzzle up bolt open .
 

5shot

Active Member
Excellent. I was planning for something in the 2000-2100 FPS range, so I guess it's time to get casting.
 

5shot

Active Member
I've been running 75/25 WW-1 20 - 0.5 copper and water dropped . On target it behaves like ACWW and HTWW in the barrel .
I get 2100 in a 358 Win 1-14" with a 35-250 RCBS . In a 222 in 1-14 I get 2640 with groups at 100 yd at 3 dia for 5 shots and 4-5 dia groups for 10 shots .
I typically shoot 3 shots as if on a bad hit hunt , stop breathe and reset and shoot again . 3-2 or 3-3-3-1 . Let it set about 5 min after the first 6 usually muzzle up bolt open .
Being water dropped, are you seeing any expansion on game?
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
Great thing about heat treated bullets is that act harder than the alloy in he barrel but react on game like what they are. Best of both worlds really.
A 50/50 alloy bullet heat treated to 18 BHn or so and gas checked should easily get 2000 FPS.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
They worked perfectly in testing unfortunately I didn't get to try on hogs .
I tool every load around hunting so I worked every effort to reach a minimum energy at range that would open to 150%+ . If I get 125% of sized dia I call it a win .
I settled on a 12×12×24 full of water , with a 1/2 plywood face , 1/2" of typical glossy magazines , either gallon milk jugs or trash bag liner full in the 24" channel . Another half inch ply wood into loose blow sand . Not perfect but seemingly close enough where I've been able to match effect to results .
 

Bret4207

St Lawrence river valley, NY
I've never been big on the "hardcast" idea. 50/50 will go as fast as your gun and load will send them with accuracy. There isn't a magic cutoff point that is the same across every gun. I've shot pretty much straight WW forever. I depend more on nose shape than alloy for effectiveness. A FP or blunt RB is going to work better across the spectrum at all speeds and alloys in game. I see some mushrooming even in WW depending on what I hit in tests of horse and cattle carcasses. Tissue disruption is still good with a FP or blunt RN. You can go the hollow point route if you really feel the need for expansion. Myself, in my 35 Whelen, an RCBS 35-200FN or a Lyman 358009 clone will do the job out to the range of effective accuracy at pretty much anything north of 1750 fps. At 2200 or north of there it's going to work as far out as you can hold.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I routinely shoot air cooled CWW+ 2% Sn in the 1800-2000 fps range, good accuracy, no leading. Bullet fit is far more important.
 

S Mac

SW Mo
I hunt with a 35 Whelen some myself, don't think I would want any expansion, .360 holes are plenty big.
 

358156 hp

Well-Known Member
Look closely at bullet design. Cast bullets perform best in hunting when you focus on meplat design, and/or roundnose radius. The short form of this statement is that the frontal area of a hunting bullet is crucial, and that larger radius roundnoses generally outperform pointier bullets on game. Of course accuracy & consistency are also paramount, as is having sufficient bullet velocity when the bullet reaches its target. Bullet expansion can be desirable, but it can also be iffy.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Yeah this is one of those places that invariably leads us into "look at a patched round ball out of 45-58 cal" big fat , soft , flexy , sticky , pre-expanded critter wrecker .
I spent a fair amount of time finding alloys that would do what I needed them to do .
I shoot a PB 50/50 Kiethish bullet in a 45 Colts +P on hogs , the exit hole depending on what it ran into was over .500 sometimes as big as .600 .
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
I've pushed water dropped 50/50 to 2400 fps and 45 K psi with accuracy in .30 caliber. If you powder coat it and heat treat the only limit is that of the cartridge and rifle itself. With traditional lube and gas checks you can push 50/50 faster than you might really want to for game hunting because it becomes explosive at really high speed.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
here is something to think about so you can be completely confused.
50-50 what?
right..
ww's and soft lead.
well there's ww's with 4% antimony from you know back in the 70's and 80's up till the 90's even.
then there is what I'd call 'modern' ww's, their alloy is more like 2.5-3.0 % antimony.
cutting the first ones in half gives you just under what the second ones start out as.
not much difference between a 3% and a 4% alloy cut in half until you go throwing 2% tin in the mix then you have a balanced alloy or a tipped over too much tin alloy.
 

5shot

Active Member
Well, I'll empty out the pot and give some 50/50 a go. I'll cast a few up and see what I get for BHN. I'll water drop some too and do a few expansion tests when the temps warm up.

I doubt I'll push anything over 2400, especially not in the 35...since the only mold I have for that one is a 280 from Accurate. It will plow through anything at 1800 fps.
 

Bret4207

St Lawrence river valley, NY
Read what Fiver wrote up above again. Then stop worrying about Bhn. If you want to cut your WW, go ahead. I wouldn't depend on expansion with lead alloy bullets, I'd depend on nose shape, metplat, weight and velocity.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the other thing is as the speeds go up the meplat size needs to go down.
look at cup and core type bullets just the 30-30 and 308 shapes are different as much for magazine tubes as for terminal performance.
there is a reason why the Hornady pointy 30-30 bullets are so soft and gummy, and if you really look the gummy nose is hiding a very large flat point.
 

freebullet

Well-Known Member
I really like a balanced exploding bullet for hunting, nothing does the job faster that I've found. What alloy? I've been playing with that, bullet design is critical. I can say adding enough antimony to a 45 can net exploded types.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
I'm working on that too, FB. While generally not a fan of hp bullets, I did get one of the recent run of 30 SIL hp moulds and have been working up loads. When I get accuracy and consistency down where it needs to be I'll attempt some expansion testing. Been powder coating them and using a 2/2 air cooled mix, though a 4/.5 would probably be a lot better.