Way off topic but this is incredibly sad...

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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Well, I AM a certified fire cause & origin investigator, and I will say that nothing I have seen on film speaks in any direction about cause & origin--mechanical, electrical, natural, or incendiary. Conspiracy theorists give me a case of the a--, they really need to take a day next week and go find a life.

Free-standing facts that I recognize--buildings of this structure's composition are self-contained fire traps. So are many manufactured homes. There are ABUNDANT opportunities for any of the 4 listed classes of fire to be at play--solely or in concert. I know how unsatisfying this sounds to the pot-stirrers and conspiracy buffs--but we might all have to wait on the forensics analysis and burn-pattern assessments to get crunched together to get ANY idea of what really happened.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Agreed that we need data. Doesn't keep one "official sources" from saying "it must be electrical"....followed by
but we have no data. Another church source says "a computer glitch probably caused it" but we don't yet have any data.

Yep. We need to wait until investigators get some data.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Last I saw was a potential issue with an elevator near the base of the steeple causing the fire. The computer glitch sent a warning but for the wrong area of the building. You get a fire warning and look where the system sends you. You find nothing while the real fire is still getting going.

Like so many of these situations it isn’t a single event but rather a series of events that happens to align just right for tragedy to occur.
 

Intheshop

Banned
My vote,from a builders perspective is with Brad above.....

It was a combination lock,meaning....it was a certain series of events,moreso than just one.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Well, I look at it from a cops perspective. "Coincidence" very often isn't! Perhaps Notre Dam was the one coincidence among several other recent attacks of churches in France. Perhaps. OTOH, the clear effort not to speculate on who or what may have been responsible in the media is telling to me. I won't go further in that area so as not to get into verboten areas, but it's highly unusual.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Maybe the media is finally acting like everyone seems to want them to do, which is to not put out incorrect information.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Based on the way the church was constructed it would have been very difficult for an arsonist to have started this fire.
The media has way overblown this idea of a wooden ceiling. The ceiling as viewed from inside the church was all stone ribbed vault. What burned was the roof, not the ceiling. The roof and attic structure was all wood with a lead cladding. I heard many reporters speak of having been in the church and looking up at the tremendous wooden ceiling which is total BS.

I agree Bret that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it is likely a duck but in those case we ain’t seen it walk or talk yet. All we know is that it is a bird.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
One major problem is that the apparent IQ of the typical reporter these days struggles to break 100.
And their education and knowledge depth and breadth is appalling narrow and shallow.

And, yes, Brad. Exactly right. And the STONE interior arches are what kept 80-90% of the flaming debris out of
the interior, and prevented it from being far worse. The roof is only a necessary weather protection, not
a primary structural element. Much like the old covered bridges. The cover was primarily there to provide
weather protection....to the wooden primary structure in those cases.
So far, ALL media commentary on the cause is pure speculation.
But I agree with Bret, coincidences make me suspicious as hell. They DO happen, but not as often
as bad people would like us to believe.

But we'll leave it at unstated suspicions while we wait for actual information.

Bill
 

Ian

Notorious member
One major problem is that the apparent IQ of the typical reporter these days struggles to break 100.
And their education and knowledge depth and breadth is appalling narrow and shallow.

"News" is theatre. Pure entertainment on both sides, no obligation for veracity nor rationality. One could say that 98% of people lack sufficient education, intellect, and knowledge fund (particularly in the subjects of world history and anthropology) to generate a valid assessment or opinion of any human event. One could also say, with some accuracy, that this has always been the case, but that freedom of press and free access to mass electronic media has only made it a thousand times more apparent.
 
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KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
“Freedom” to do anything always includes the possibility of doing something wrong. But I would rather have a free press and learn to think critically than to have a restricted press dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

By the way, there is a difference between most talking head newsreaders and real investigative journalists as there is between the mall ninja keyboard commandos and the folks who hang out here.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Freedom also includes no small amount of responsibility.

Ian,
Your last sentence is most telling.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Lotta good thoughts in this thread.

I agree with the assessment that a series of things need to take place in sequence for accidental, natural, or mechanical origins to propogate fire. Incendiary origins only need one (or more) sick %$&#s in order to take place.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Actually the design was pretty common, from Britain. Nave, common with pillars and clear story for light. Parthenon was filled with dirt and poured around/over it. Colosseum had moveable forms for the arches, drop in the keystone and move to the next. Actually a lot of fittings to hold the walls together.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Based on the way the church was constructed it would have been very difficult for an arsonist to have started this fire.

I would just point out that if it would be difficult to set on fire purposely, it's just as unlikely an accidental fire would start. Maybe they will nail down the C+O for sure or maybe this will go down in the books as "...probable electrical..." like so many others. Still doesn't change the fact that people are attacking and destroying/defacing churches, statues, etc.
 
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