RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
But only if you are driving a 2 1/2 ton truck.
We're in trouble
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have a coin purse, heavy duty of course, stuffed with coins for the toll booths. Interestingly, is the same size and shape as the Denver Sap I carried in LE. FWIW
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Juries are made up of the people who can't come up with a viable reason not to serve. Some even enjoy it! Some might say this is evidence they aren't the brightest of our population.
In all seriousness, I think there is merit to the idea of professional jurors. A lot of cons to the idea, yes, but a lot of pros too.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Can't make lawyer jokes here anymore. But feel free to do cop jokes, they don't bother us at all.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Indians up in the Rez used to attend "protests" with claw hammers on their belt. Perfectly innocent....
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Smart kid. I was such a naive idealist when I got on the job that I actually thought I was supposed to go out and fight for truth, justice and the American way. Pretty dumb, eh?
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358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I've been called up five times, and have served on three Juries. I was Foreman on the first, disgusted on the second, and outraged on the third. I was selected for the Jury on the fifth trial, but the Judge asked is anyone on the Jury had been in a previous Jury, I raised my hand. I was released on the spot when His Honor heard about my Jury record, and an alternate was installed in my place. The Judge thanked me for my services, and said he would "take care" of this. I have never been called up again.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Jury duty, like voting, is a civic duty.
Our founding fathers included the right to trial by jury in the 6th amendment so that the government could never deprive the people of that right.
Avoiding the political discussion that this forum so wisely prohibits, I'll just say that jury duty may not be fun but it sure is important.
Our founding fathers included the right to trial by jury in the 6th amendment so that the government could never deprive the people of that right.
Avoiding the political discussion that this forum so wisely prohibits, I'll just say that jury duty may not be fun but it sure is important.
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I got jury duty notice yesterday. Sixth time in four years, I have the jury report recording on speed dial on my phone. Ex- LE, FF, Medic, Drug lab raid team. Son is the county Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, so what are my chances of being on a Jury? Still get the notices more than once a year.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
You will NEVER be on a jury. But they still get to send the notices out and you still get to reply...
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
You will NEVER be on a jury. But they still get to send the notices out and you still get to reply...
RBHarter
West Central AR
I was pooled 7/8 yr , got notices to appear 7/6 years , once for the pool of the 9th circuit . I was actually called 4 times 3 plead out hours before the start of selection.
I wanted to , I really did and even in the small I pretty sure I could be impartial ....... By the time they called me I had to ask to be excused. Of the 12 listed witnesses I had overheard no fewer than 3 down loading about a strikingly similar incident , 1 was my Boss another his wife . I was also exactly where and in almost identical circumstances of the event less than 10 minutes before it happened ....... except I wasn't riding double on a quad and I wasn't intoxicated so I didn't wipe out and fatally injure my girlfriend. All of which would have made it nearly impossible to have participated objectively in a DUI fatality accident trial . As I recall he plead out after the first lunch break involuntary manslaughter or something that amounted to accepting full responsibility for bad choices that resulted in an accidental death .
I wanted to , I really did and even in the small I pretty sure I could be impartial ....... By the time they called me I had to ask to be excused. Of the 12 listed witnesses I had overheard no fewer than 3 down loading about a strikingly similar incident , 1 was my Boss another his wife . I was also exactly where and in almost identical circumstances of the event less than 10 minutes before it happened ....... except I wasn't riding double on a quad and I wasn't intoxicated so I didn't wipe out and fatally injure my girlfriend. All of which would have made it nearly impossible to have participated objectively in a DUI fatality accident trial . As I recall he plead out after the first lunch break involuntary manslaughter or something that amounted to accepting full responsibility for bad choices that resulted in an accidental death .
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Same here. I've TRIED to get them to let me sit a jury. They won't do it. But they'll put an alcoholic on jury for a fatal DWI trial.
Something to consider is that trials back in the day didn't stretch on for weeks and months. Jury duty was expected to be a 1 to 3 day thing, and once in a life time.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
/\ Who is "They"? /\
The clerk sends out notices (summons) to a large group of adult citizens in the jurisdiction.
Out of that pool, perhaps 40 are selected for a particular trial.
Those potential jurors will be examined to make sure they meet basic qualifications. (over 18 years old, residents of the jurisdiction for a length of time, residents of the state for some time, U.S. citizens, aren’t related to the parties, no serious health problems that would prevent them from being jurors, etc.)
The attorneys will engage in more detailed examination (Voir dire) to attempt to ferret out potential bias, with varying success.
The judge will randomly pick a smaller group out of those, usually 20.
Each side, in turn, gets 4 strikes; removing a total of 8 people and leaving the final panel of 12 jurors.
So the “THEY” in that process is: the clerk, the judge, the attorneys and to a great extent – the jury panel themselves.
Attorneys don’t get to PICK jurors; Attorneys get to eliminate some (not all) potential jurors and they end up with what they end up with.
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Rick H
Well-Known Member
I have been in on the voir dire of witnesses along with the prosecutor while functioning as the officer in charge of criminal cases. I always felt that short of an obvious conflict we should just take the first 12 and run with them. It seems prosecutors and defense attorneys enjoy the game of trying to predict who is more likely to vote their way. In my state working LE personnel are prohibited from sitting on a criminal jury. The fact is that no defense attorney worth his salt will let even a retired officer or anyone with an inside knowledge of the justice system sit on their jury.
I wanted to sit on one if for no other reason than to see what goes on in deliberations. I believe I could be a fair and impartial juror. I think I might surprise them. I know about the inside "stuff" that is pulled by the prosecution as well. As it is I get the "thank you for coming, you are excused" every time I am called to appear. What is frustrating is getting notified and having to show up knowing you will never be seated. That is a waste of everyone's time.
I wanted to sit on one if for no other reason than to see what goes on in deliberations. I believe I could be a fair and impartial juror. I think I might surprise them. I know about the inside "stuff" that is pulled by the prosecution as well. As it is I get the "thank you for coming, you are excused" every time I am called to appear. What is frustrating is getting notified and having to show up knowing you will never be seated. That is a waste of everyone's time.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Striking a potential juror for cause is very straight forward.
Peremptory challenges, using one of your allotted strikes to remove a potential juror without giving a reason, is where the real dance occurs. Both sides use their strikes to shape the makeup of the jury. Neither side ever ends up with what they ideally want.
Thumbcocker
Active Member
I always asked to have the investigating officer sit at counsel table with me during jury trials. In Illinois it is at the judges discretion, some allowed and some did not. With a young LEO at the table you could watch the lights go on in their mind during the trial as they came to understand why the "mean old prosecutor " was such a "jerk" about stuff being included in reports and the like. Almost unanimously the LEO'S found the experience positive. It also really helped police prosecutor relationships.
One quick story. I was doing a meth manufacturing jury trial with a local State's Attorney. The investigating deputy was allowed to sit at counsel table. He was a good kid and had made the initial arrest and his sergeant had wisely allowed him to do much of the follow up investigation. The kid had done good solid police work.
As we're were about to enter the courtroom (we had already picked the jury) the youngster asked me "is there anything I need to do or not do in there?". I told him "Don't pick your nose or talk to your gun and we will be fine."
LEO training is about probable cause to arrest. Prosecutor training is all about proving a charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes that causes friction but a LEO who has sat at counsel table for a jury trial gets a much better understanding.
One quick story. I was doing a meth manufacturing jury trial with a local State's Attorney. The investigating deputy was allowed to sit at counsel table. He was a good kid and had made the initial arrest and his sergeant had wisely allowed him to do much of the follow up investigation. The kid had done good solid police work.
As we're were about to enter the courtroom (we had already picked the jury) the youngster asked me "is there anything I need to do or not do in there?". I told him "Don't pick your nose or talk to your gun and we will be fine."
LEO training is about probable cause to arrest. Prosecutor training is all about proving a charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes that causes friction but a LEO who has sat at counsel table for a jury trial gets a much better understanding.
Rick H
Well-Known Member
In my jurisdiction in all criminal cases that went to the Circuit Court (felony trials) the detective in charge of the case sat at the table beside the prosecutor from jury selection until it was given to the jury. We were on call to get there if the jury was brought in with questions and usually when a verdict came in.
We also had a detective assigned for preliminary exams at the District Court. Usually he had one of his cases coming up but would stay for all of them to assist the prosecutor. Usually the prosecutor saw the cases about 10 minutes before the exam. It helped having someone with at least a passing knowledge of the case on hand to assist the prosecutor.
The prosecutor at trial usually was not the same one who handled the exam. Usually the first time they saw the case was the day of the trial. If we were lucky he/she got the file the night before.
We also had a detective assigned for preliminary exams at the District Court. Usually he had one of his cases coming up but would stay for all of them to assist the prosecutor. Usually the prosecutor saw the cases about 10 minutes before the exam. It helped having someone with at least a passing knowledge of the case on hand to assist the prosecutor.
The prosecutor at trial usually was not the same one who handled the exam. Usually the first time they saw the case was the day of the trial. If we were lucky he/she got the file the night before.