What is a gunsmith in these modern times?

[Glaciers]

As Ian pointed out the difference between a "mechanic" and a parts changer. I owned a automotive repair shop for years right at the start of the conversation of vehicles from the old points, plugs, and rotor with carb work to the beginning of the "plug in" and test times. Parts changers, or with the gun world all of a sudden, I looked around and everyone was doing "builds". Some thought that made them a Smith of sorts. I guess it did if you hung out with that crowd.
On one hand it's good as it makes it easier for younger folks to be involved.
But, as Ross put it:

What a loss it will be when all these truly gifted men are gone. Why oh why have we dumbed down everything?

It will be a sad day.

 

[Brad]

It isn’t as much about dumbed down as it is cheaped out.

 

[Glaciers]

Well it's change. When you grew up in a time with a more hands on world, it's difficult to watch what gets lost. It's the way of it though.

 

[dannyd]

Everything changes. I was raised by a cabinet maker, Tree in one door cabinets out the other door Then in the 1970's factory cabinets took over and that was the end of that. Same with guns an AR's doesn't need a old time Gunsmith and we all have been doing our own trigger jobs for years. Things change.

 

[Charles Graff]

Lots of folks who are called gunsmiths are just gun cleaners and parts replacers. There are real gunsmiths who can do it all and then there are speciality gunsmiths who do a limited range of things. Gunsmiths vary allot in their competence. Incompetent gunsmiths is what drove me to doing my own gun work. A gunsmith with a big name is no guarantee of competence. As if right now, I know of only two gunsmiths whom I would trust to be highly competent. I am certain there are others I don't know.

 

[oscarflytyer]

alibi: I have a very good friend who is just a shooter, but he also grew up on 1911s. His GF/Dad were shooters, and at least his Dad was a 1911 guy. He is too. He has worked numerous 1911s for himself, and "adopted" me w/r/t 1911s! I am lucky! He really helped set up my 45. And yesterday, we spent 3-4 hrs together putting a drop-in 38 Super bbl in a 9mm 1911 I bought specifically to have as a "convertible" 9/38 S. Included stoning/honing/parts fitting. Shot it today and avg 5 shot group on a mil spec drop in gun is 1.15" @ 7 yds/rest w/ new bbl, ~70 yo ammo and a HORRIBLE trigger! This one is going to get the full deal - parts/fitting, etc with a great trigger pull when done. Prob 3.5-4.25 lbs. Again, I am lucky, as I love 1911s!

 

[358156 hp]

Like Doctors, most gunsmiths specialize in their preferred field. The Village Gunsmith is a lost art anymore. My gunsmith friends are specializing in precision bolt rifles, but will consider working on almost anything. I just got my barrelled action back from them, so now the rest is up to me unless I need help, but I should be able to finish the rest of it myself. Like many guys, I have my own tools and do the majority of my work myself. I don't have a lathe or a mill, but they're both about ten minutes away, and I've never run either myself anyway.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

We had two real honest to god gunsmiths in here. Each could build up rifles. The gun I used most could mount aperture sights correctly. Guy would made firing pins. He could lower bolt handles that were a work of art, Both the old guys are gone. The newer guys put together AR's and replace parts.

 

[todd]

i had a really good friend who was a gunsmith. he died two years after my stroke. i went to one gunsmith who was 1 1/2 away, he did nice work, but he was/is overloaded with many people's guns. it took me about 9 months to bend a bolt and d&t for a scope mount. there is a younger guy who does gunsmithing and he has my 91 argentine to d&t peep sight and 93 mauser to d&t, bend the bolt handle and put on a 2 position safety. he is overloaded too, but he is 1/2 hour away. i can take a rifle apart(except lever actions, i have a win m94 but i never did).

i am right now sanding a 98 mauser stock that is from richard's( http://rifle-stocks.com/ ). i have put on a dayton trigger but the backslap screw needs adjustment. i need a small (1/16" or smaller) allen wrench or let my gunsmith deal with it(most likely). or i'll have to check the bolt shroud is in its proper place. i have another 93 mauser stock to sand and archery season is less than 2 months away.

i ain't no gunsmith, i can replace parts and do some woodwerk. i know how to replace a barrel but thats about it. reaming, chambering and contouring the barrel, what threads go to what rifles are just some of the things that a gunsmith does.

 

[RBHarter]

I've been fortunate . I know a guy that does nice work and while he has his preferred work he can and does do just about everything . He said something about not boring ruined BP rifles to smooth bores once . He does tank bluing , turns barrels , stocks , inlay and some checkering . He's been to a couple of factory schools , he tries to defer ARs and Glocks and doesn't care for most things with plastic lowers but was quick to give one he hadn't handled personally a deep looking over .

Mildcat Carcano anyone ?

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Men who had the skill to do gunsmithing found other more lucrative work. One of the old time gunsmiths here shared that he figured had worked for minimum wages for most of his career. His metal work was great. This meant beautifully lowered bolt handles and other action modifications. He could fit aperture sights correctly including drilling and tapping holes. Have you tried to have that job done lately? I have gotten to the point of not starting projects if gunsmithing skills are involved. In a another incident in one shop I was shown a newly made custom rifle. The rifle was a 300WSM rifle built on a 1918 vintage GEW98.

 

[todd]

most of the werk of "custom" rifles are from my gunsmith. mostly because of me. i had a really bad stroke about 8 years ago and my right arm/leg is only about 20% good. i used to able d&t and bend the bolt handle, but i don't do it anymore. besides, it will only cost $15/hole and the bending part is cheap too(i can't remember that dollar amount). and if i remember right, i can take the barrel(which i bought) to my gunsmith to be threaded, chambered(popular chambers), headspace and crowned for about $100-150. and i can't do that anymore.

 

[Mitty38]

My gunsmith was my cousin's husband. He was an armorer in the Army. Then he apprenticed under Remington's certification program in the early 70's.
He did all the work I did not feel secure in doing, even taught me how to do a few things, myself. Then he got divorced, then old, and retired. Moved into a smaller place, sold off his serious tools and jigs, drill press, metal and wood lathes, mill, etc.
Any how been trying to find a real one around here, there are 2 but they specialize, and not in what I need done.
So one of the fellows I work with, I was told builds guns. I am like "ye, got to talk to him". So I ask him if he works on guns.
Says "Sure do, I can do anything you need!" I am thinking great!!!!
So I tell him I have a 12 gauge 620 Barrel that I need him to look at, measure barrel thickness, and let me know if Rem chokes, and a Marbles pearl sight, would be safe to install. After cutting it down to 24". Or, would it be better to go with some other brand. Or to cut it back to 20 and have him thread or, braze, a sighted Cutts or Poly on it.
Got the deer in the headlight look. He says what? I walked away. Still looking for a real gunsmith in my area.
Found out later, he was a licenced Armorer and firearm Powdercoater.
I swear the AR15 and the Glock craze has eliminated the real gunsmith!!!

 

[358156 hp]

Just for the record, there's a lot more to properly building an AR15 than most people seem to think. Most people simply assemble them, and although functional, most of the builds you see are not checked out and fitted correctly. For too many people, as long as it goes "bang" at the appropriate moment, and a hole magically appears somewhere in the general direction it is pointed (not aimed), the project is a success, and they're the greatest gunsmith ever!!

 

[Mitty38]

Just for the record, there's a lot more to properly building an AR15 than most people seem to think. Most people simply assemble them, and although functional, most of the builds you see are not checked out and fitted correctly. For too many people, as long as it goes "bang" at the appropriate moment, and a hole magically appears somewhere in the general direction it is pointed (not aimed), the project is a success, and they're the greatest gunsmith ever!!

Yep. When I built mine, I was talking to another fellas about file fitting ,stoning , checking head space, and clearances.
They said " just, slap it together, soak it in CPL, and run a couple hundred rounds thru it. It will be ok". I was thinking, NO.

Now there are some Armorers that are not gunsmiths. Who build and twerk, AR's and Glocks', to a perfection way beyond expectations. They are exceptional at what they do. But most of those will tell you they do not do general smithing, and they know their limits.
Then you got Bubba, with a work bench and an I can do it attitude!

 

[RicinYakima]

Knowledge is power. If you have a brain tumor, do you go to the GP who gives you your flu shots, or a specialist neurosurgeon? When I built my "freedom AR" I looked at 20+ internet articles and borrowed three books from the library.

 

[Ian]

Send that barrel to Briley. If it's too thin they can jug-choke it for you. Not sure what they do for beads.

 

[Mitty38]

Send that barrel to Briley. If it's too thin they can jug-choke it for you. Not sure what they do for beads.

Just checked them out. They do not work on Stevens or Browning shotguns. Mine is both so...
Too bad, they had a 3 choke deal for 240 bucks that would have been doable for me.

 

[Ian]

I didn't know that. They took the top skeet barrel of my Nikko 5000 down to a light modified by jugging it and fixed the forcing cones too. Barrels were too thin for screw-ins.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

For another kind of rifle look at the long range or built up guns today. Much of the more complicated machine work on the action is farmed out.

This 98 Mauser in 256 Newton was built by a local gunsmith who is now retired. The rifle has a Bartlien barrel and B&C stock. What's out of this equation is the wooden stock. Where I'm going is what makes up gunsmithing is different. Good rifle but not a thing of beauty. The synthetic stock put a different spin on rifle building.