What is a gunsmith in these modern times?

fiver

Well-Known Member

Ian

Notorious member
There ya go ^^^^^

A local automotive customer years ago handed me his card for his contact info. The card read "Charlie's Gunsmithing ". I said cool, are you accepting work? He said yes so I said I got this Ruger New Vaquero what needs a forcing cone and cylinder throat job, and a M70 that needs a new barrel, and a couple guns that could use a polish and reblue. He said I can't do any of that. I asked what can you do and he said he had a few hand tools, could do things like mount scopes and install aftermarket triggers. Hell, I could do that on my tailgate in my lunch break with the tools I had in my mechanic's chest, while-u-wait at and not need an FFL. SMH.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Looks like I will need to measure the ID and OD first at the length I want. To see if and what can be done.
Now I need to put myself into the "Bubba with a can do attitude" mode, and find my hacksaw.
Or, I could pay him the extra 60 to chop it and face it then drill it for a sight. But that would make too much sense.
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
The difference? Sponsors! Some have the ability to 'blueprint' an engine, some just know how to change bearings and pistons. Takes funds for the equipment and knowledge to 'blueprint' or 'make' a good rifle. Read several post on assembly of a accurate AR. Most don't need an 'accurate' AR. Square up the front of the upper and locktite it in? Ever check the upper for 'trueness'? Parts for proper dim.? Yea, some do trigger jobs - for reliability? Military armorers and artillery gunners mates maintain the weapon. So most of the 'gunsmiths' we see now are kinda in-between amateur and somewhat talented. A good gun is 'good' due to tolerances - how much you want to pay for that? Yes there are cheap designs that 'need' fixing.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
People make a big fuss on ARs about the forging mark. on the receivers. All the forging mark identifies is who forged the receiver blank, not who machined it. It's nice to know the blank was forged by a company who knows how to do it, but the quality of the machining is far more conducive to consistent accuracy. And every component in every gun needs to be individually checked and verified before installation.
 

Mowgli Terry

Active Member
That action on my Mauser (previous post) had been converted by one of the old guy local gunsmiths. He had lowed the bolt handle and installed the Canjar triggers. He also made a botton floor plate latch. The action had laid fallow until recently until another gunsmith fitted barrel and B&C stock. There is a world of difference in the kind of work. I had gone to the old guy for a small screw from a Model 12 Winchester forend. He explained that he did not stock these screws as he made them when needed. The other side of this story is that he figured he had worked all his life for minimum wage.

Added: For another view of quality of work check out Shiloh and C.Sharps and the others making quality single shot rifles.
 
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Mowgli Terry

Active Member
That done it!: We had one of the local self anointed who set shop. He was a nice guy but on guns somewhat delusional. He had taken on the job of installing a Cutts on to a Browning shotgun. He explained how he would cut grooves in the barrel to give a good solder bond. When discharged, the compensator went along into the bulrushes. More recently I had taken a Remington 700 Mountain rifle into a local custom gunsmith to have the barrel shortened and recrowned. What he did was make a deep "crown" to remove rust. This made me leave the world of fixer-uppers. This latter example is one step up on the Bubba hierarchy from our friend putting on the Cutts. If I can't fix it, (replace a part) then allow another to have the project gun. The next step up is the expert who hot blues SxS barrels.
 
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L Ross

Well-Known Member
I'll give you an example of a gunsmith, albeit a now retired one who thankfully is a very good friend.
When he stayed at my place so we could attend an ELR .22 shoot two weekends ago we noticed the tubular magazine was bent on the Remington Model 25 .25-20 I was going to be using to hunt squirrels with staring this past Monday. Charlie offered to take it with him to address the issue as it was too complicated to fix on the tail gate of his pickup. Believe me when I can attest to some tailgate repairs as well.
I get a call Monday morning from Charlie saying the rifle is done. While it was apart he noted the following. The screw holding the tube to the incredibly complex Pedersen designed loading mechanism was missing. The screw has a reduced diameter nose on it and is 3/16 long. Not available anywhere, Charlie made one. He noticed that the repaired stock was not bedded evenly against the action and would perhaps be subject to a future pressure split. He scrape bedded it for full contact. He did not like the screws supplied with the Lyman 25R receiver sight as they were too short and not bearing evenly holding the sight to the action. New screws. He did not like how stiff and "draggy" the action was and upon disassembly and inspection discovered old dried glue from a previous stock repair had gotten into the action and mixed with decades of debris and dried oil. Solvents were doing a poor job of removal so he mechanically cleaned it with picks and brushes, relubed it and told me not to hit myself in the nose the first time I pumped it. No kidding, slicker'n two northern pike in a spawning marsh.
The bent tube you ask, straightened so straight I can't tell it was ever bent. Charlie apologized that it is not perfect and the only true solution involved a lathe and the loss of the patina. We speculate that the badly cracked stock and the bent magazine tube were probably the result of a bad fall in some previous owner's life in the woods and he may have landed on it. Another friend who also repairs violins did the initial repair on the badly split wrist and I cannot see the repair. Charlie declared the repair, "A good job." but opined that the contact area at the back of the receiver just needed a little help to be perfectly square.
The call from Charle was an offer to drive halfway across the State to meet in a Culver's parking lot so I could get my rifle back before another buddy got to my place for a week of squirrel hunting, fishing on the Mississippi and other frivolity. I left 10 minutes after getting the call! I asked Charlie how much time he spent on this project, and his sheepish reply was 16.5 hours! My bill was a firm hand shake. All I have ever done for the man is to try to be a friend as best as I can.
I am not 100% sure what it means to be a guild tested gunsmith but I know it involved building a 1911. This guy is incredible and I wish was immortal.
 

Bruce Drake

Active Member
"gun tech" is a better term for most "gunsmiths" now. And due to the dearth of quality smiths, many of us including myself, have had to invest our own time in maintaining our firearms. I can build an ar15 in less than an hour with a complete parts kit for it to be functional and accurate. But I gladly invest hours in ensuring my pistols and other types of rifles function properly and accurately. Many modern shooters do not.
 

Mowgli Terry

Active Member
I did miss one group of gunsmiths. In my muzzle loading club there are one gunsmith and two very advanced men capable of building muzzle loading rifles. The professional builder is elderly with reduced activity. He was a pioneer in the blackpower revival. He sold locks of his own making plus other hardware for building Tennessee style rifles. Building these guns is mainly assembly of store bought locks, barrels and the like. The skill of putting these parts together plus overall skill is in stock makings and selection of hardware. The up and coming maker is turning out some beautiful rifles. Another is no longer active. The oldest builder has been mentor to the others. Actually a mentor to use all. There are gunsmiths who actively build everything in the gun. You spend serious money on this level on muzzle loader.
 
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