Wind reading assit

[GWarden]

Reading the wind definitely aids in shooting efficiency. I am amazed at some of the matches I shoot at that no one else has wind flags out. The range that most of the matches I attend has 200yds. With the trees, berms and every thing else I might have 5 flags out and they are all going different directions. Got ahold of a neat item put out by Orlando Wind Flag Systems. This is a super sensitive item has sure aided in reading wind. A shooter watches the probe and the shot is taken when the probe is always in the same position. If one has the patience the wind many times cycles and allows for taking the shot when the probe is always in the same position.

 

[L Ross]

Years ago at Etna Green at a schuetzen match a fellow had a home made version of this and you're exactly right. Figure out what amount of wind is most common and only shoot with your sights set for that wind. His had a styrofoam ball painted blaze orange instead of that green plastic barrel.

 

[RicinYakima]

Go to a CBA national match; there are 50 on the range. I quit bring mine.

 

[Snakeoil]

The top "bob" looks like two plastic Dixie cups glued together. Agree, styro would work fine.

Might have to make one of these. Could be this week's therapy project. I see value for right and left winds. No help for head or tail winds.

Got an idea for a head/tail wind indicator while typing the. It uses the same basic design, only with an added indicator that you can see from the firing line since this type would have to be turned 90 degs for those winds.

Our 500 yard range is lined on both sides by tall pines. So we get some bizarre wind indications on the various flags. Plus, given the trajectory of the projectiles, we also have to be concerned with winds coming over the roof of the enclosed firing line. We have days where the wind flags are not showing much. But when you go out to paint, you get these blasts in your face from uprange. I'm sure we have all kinds of crazy vortices being created by the trees and firing line structure.

Wouldn't it be great if you could buy a pair of glasses that would let you see the wind?

 

[GWarden]

Snake Oil
You mentioned an idea for a head/tail wind indicator. This really would not be necessary. Even with a head/tail wind the probe will still give you a valid indication with head/tail wind. You will get probe movement with these winds, again using the probe to take the shot when the probe is in the same position for each shot. Granted sometimes in a timed event the wind does not cycle enough to get all shots off with the identical probe position.

 

[GWarden]

An added note, you set the probe so it is straight up before going to the range. You put the probe on your regular wind flags, just place it below the regular wind flag.

 

[Snakeoil]

I struggle with how a wind blowing perpendicular to the swing of the indicator will provide an indication. It might sway it if not exactly perpendicular, but I don't see the indication being much help with deterimining the strength of the wind.

Yes, you can wait for the same conditions for every shot. And if the matches had a Mercedes in the prize pool, that is probably what would be done. But these are club matches with nothing but bragging rights when they are done. So, making corrections for the wind conditions being read by the spotter goes a long way to understanding the effects on the projectile downrange. Same is true with mirage and the combination of the two.

We are moving to smaller targets at Wilton to increase the challenge and IMHO, the fun. Perfect scores are nice, but when you tend to shoot them regularly, it indicates that the match is not challenging the shooter sufficiently. We just cooked up a plan to hold what will be called 3-minute matches. Each target is 3 minutes in diameter for every yardage from 50 to 500. This will make it tough for the iron sight guys because small targets are hard to see. But they shoot against each other, so everyone is on the same playing field. We will probably hold an iron sight only match with these targets to demonstrate what can be done. It's important to keep it fun and not discourage the shooters that don't have the skills. Old eyes, shaky fingers and reluctance to learn and improve have to be taken into consideration. It is also an opportunity to learn and at Wilton, pretty much all the shooters are willing to coach others to make them better. If they end up beating you, now you have the challenge to get better.

Getting back to the topic, we have shooters who are old hands at long range shooting that still do not believe that the wind and mirage play a significant role. Not sure why they refuse to accept the effects of the wind. But they suffer in their scores because they refuse to correct in order to accommodate for those two variables. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[GWarden]

Snakeoil
Clarification on the purpose of the wind probe. The probe is to show any changes, as slight as they might be in direction of the wind. Back to perpendicular winds and how the probe helps. I guess I have never encounter a truly perpendicular wind or any wind in fact that does not have some fluctuations, small as they might be over time, even within a few minutes. The probe shows this fluctuation, and the greater the strength of the wind the more significant even a miner change in direction will have. A very small fluctuation that the wind probe shows, will magnify the deflection as the strength of the wind increases. Again, the rifleman wants to take the shot when the probe is showing the same position for each shot. Just the other day I was shooting at 100yds. The wind was probably 5mph and less. On two of the five shot targets shot I watch the probe and always took the shot when the probe was in the same position. Both groups were within .145". I then shot two groups not using the probe and going by how the wind felt on my face, movement of small vegetation etc. The difference in group size was not quite a 1/2"
difference of the eggs between probe watched and not using probe was .578 for probe watched, not watched 1.1". I understand that it might be hard to visualize the probe with what one calls a true head/tail wind, but it will vary. Again the probe is only for shooting when wind condition is the same for each shot. You regular wind flags for determining speed of wind. One might say that the probe only works for specific distances. Basic rule that we are aware of is that the wind closest will deflect the bullet more than the wind as the distance increases. A 3mph hour wind at the muzzle; as small as it might be, increases deflection as the distance from the muzzle increases. A 3mph wind at 100yds on shooting at a 200yd target is not as great as that at the muzzle. Have a great day.
bob

 

[Snakeoil]

Appreciate the comprehensive reply. I think spell check got you with "difference of the eggs", but still understood the point.

I fully agree that best practice is to take every shot with the same conditions in play.

Last Sunday, the match was 200, 300 and 400 3-minute diameter gongs. Mirage was non-existent and the wind was for the most part pretty light, but of course variable. We shot in teams of 3 due to the number of shooters and number of indoor benches. The three of us all noticed that shot placement was difficult to explain. It would appear that conditions were the same. But apparently, something was different. One of the 3 was breach seating and he never touched the center of a target. All his shots ringed the outside edges. Granted, he was shooting a .25-20 single shot so the bullet is small and effected more by wind. But I've seen that rifle do much better on other days with iffy conditions. So something was up and it would have been nice to be able to have read it. We know it involved a tail wind. I went out to replace a missing flag at 50 yds and felt the wind on my face coming from behind the firing line. The flags were not truly showing what that wind was doing.

Yes, I realize that 100% perpendicular or parallel to the bullet path is probably a rarity and the wind is going to have some angularity to it in respect to those two perfect paths, not to mention the variability. What I liked about this device was being able to read what the wind is doing at the moment the shot is broke to understand the effect on the target.