Plain Base Cast bullets ( Rifle) observation!

[Snakeoil]

I don't muzzle load my bullets. The new bullet I just started shooting is a tapered design. It's an Accurate Molds copy of the 632 Saeco, made to my specs since my bore is oversize. This is the bullet I mentioned in 2 posts above. I opened up the Lyman sizing die to 0.326 and the results have been excellent. If you go to my .32-40 New Adventure thread, you'll see the results in painful detail.

Regarding beveled base bullets, I'm not convinced that they work well for precision rifle work. I shot them for years in pistols because they were a requirement for use in a progressive press. Plus, shooting action pistol events is hardly ever much over 25 yds and most is under 10 yds. Even Bill Wilson only guaranteed his Accu-comp 1911's to shoot 2 inches at 50 yds. Anyway, I think a beveled base bullet invites gas cutting where a plain base with a nice sharp edge tends to seal better. Might be total hogwash, but pretty much everyone at Wilton has little use for beveled base bullets. I have quite a few commercially made bevel based bullets in several calibers that I probably should sell as I'll never use them.

 

[Snakeoil]

I would ask Mr. Pope:

I was at Charlie's Gun Shop on Wed and one of the members returned a book to another. I believe the name of the book was "Sincerely yours, Harry S. Pope. It was a collection of various correspondence from Pope. I asked how it was. He said the first half was interesting. The second half was pretty much Pope telling everyone he could about just how great he was. I'd heard before that Pope was a bit full of himself and took you off his friend list at the drop of a hat.

I've known some very talented people over the years. It seems more often than not, they seem to be insecure about who they are and I suspect this is what drives them to achieve great things. Being recognized by others is probably one of the greatest compliments and if you are insecure about yourself, you can never get enough recognition, so it simply drives you to do more. Not all the geniuses I've known have been cantankerous like Pope is reported to have been. But they all had more to say about what they knew than anything else. If you changed the subject or offered an alternate opinion, they lost interest in the conversation.

It's okay. It's the price one has to pay to reap the benefits of their genius. More than once, I've had to call one of those experts for help and it would take half the day to get myself ready for what was going to be a long conversation. I'd always learn a lot more than I had called about. But that also meant I could kiss an hour or two away listening on the phone. But I learned a lot, so it was worth it. Wish I still remembered all of it.

 

[johnnyjr]

When using plain base bullets do you push them fast or slow courious. Do you use a softer alloy. I have a mold I'm thinking about converting to a flat base,but don't know who to get to do it.. thanks..

 

[MW65]

When using plain base bullets do you push them fast or slow courious. Do you use a softer alloy. I have a mold I'm thinking about converting to a flat base,but don't know who to get to do it.. thanks..

Typically below 12-1400... softer alloy is what most use... I like range scrap, because of the economics... why waste lino or hardcast on something going like 22lr speeds?

 

[johnnyjr]

Typically below 12-1400... softer alloy is what most use... I like range scrap, because of the economics... why waste lino or hardcast on something going like 22lr speeds?

Your right about that.. thanks

 

[Spindrift]

@johnnyjr , if you powder coat your PB bullets, they become an entirely different animal.
2000fps+ with good accuracy in .30-06/.308 is possible, with a well- fitting bullet.

 

[Snakeoil]

When using plain base bullets do you push them fast or slow courious. Do you use a softer alloy. I have a mold I'm thinking about converting to a flat base,but don't know who to get to do it.. thanks..

I use 30:1 lead/tin. I've pushed them as fast as 1600 fps. My PB experience is limited to many rounds of .45-70 with BP and limited experience with my .32-40 using smokeless. Not sure PB bullets are meant to be shot in all rifles. I was talking about this today with my shooting partner over lunch. Based on his experience with his 03A4, and a couple other members that tried them in various milsurps, it woud appear that faster twist rifles don't seem to play well with PB bullets. I'm thinking that the soft alloy needed for PB bullets does not like the faster twists and tends to strip out rather than engrave. I have no proof of this. The symptom was pitiful accuracy and some severe leading. I'm talking long strands of lead coming out on a patch.

If you are still talking about your .243, if it were mine, I'd be using GC bullets. I have a .22-250 that I'm about to start playing with again. As much as I hate those tiny little GCs they will be accompanying every bullet I put down the barrel. The bullets will also be harder, at least 20:1 or commercially cast bullets.

 

[Bret4207]

PB can be a real bear to work with. Years back, (more than a decade!), over on The Site Which Shall Not Be Named as mess of us got together and design the "perfect" PB design. It was called the "30 Plinker" and it's whole purpose was to to drop good, PB bullets suitable for the various 30 cal class and to be used with liquid lubes and they dropped 6 at a time from the mould. I never heard a single good report on that bullet and I certainly never had any luck with it. It had all of what we thought we're the necessary pieces and parts and SHOULD have worked good. Maybe I pushed it to fast, but not everyone did surely, and yet there were crickets when it came to praise. I don't know why PB can be such a bear. I can use PB in a revolver and everything is sunshine and lollipops, but stick a PB in a rifle and something changes- not all the time, but enough so that I view it as a different game.

 

[Maven]

Brett, Are you referring to the Lee 30-150-TL design and mould? If so, I have one and can get more than acceptable 50 yd. accuracy from its droppings if I don't push it too hard and pay attention when I'm shooting: ~9 gr. of Unique or 9.5 gr. of Blue Dot were most successful. Further, if I tapered that CB in a special die made to fit my rifle, accuracy was even better. OTOH, Saeco #315 sans gas check is just as accurate and there's no extra step using a tapering die.

 

[L Ross]

When the CBA had a plain base Ground Hog Postal match that I messed around with I had good luck with the RCBS 30-150-CM, a plain base flat nosed item. 6.0 grains of Trail Boss shot pretty well from a couple of different Springfields.

 

[Bret4207]

Brett, Are you referring to the Lee 30-150-TL design and mould? If so, I have one and can get more than acceptable 50 yd. accuracy from its droppings if I don't push it too hard and pay attention when I'm shooting: ~9 gr. of Unique or 9.5 gr. of Blue Dot were most successful. Further, if I tapered that CB in a special die made to fit my rifle, accuracy was even better. OTOH, Saeco #315 sans gas check is just as accurate and there's no extra step using a tapering die.

It was only known as "The 30 Plinker" as far as I know. It wasn't a Lee design, but it incorporated some of their ideas and I think they cut it.

 

[Ben]

I owned one " for a brief period of time ".
Was not very impressed with it.

Ben

 

[Mainiac]

PB can be a real bear to work with. Years back, (more than a decade!), over on The Site Which Shall Not Be Named as mess of us got together and design the "perfect" PB design. It was called the "30 Plinker" and it's whole purpose was to to drop good, PB bullets suitable for the various 30 cal class and to be used with liquid lubes and they dropped 6 at a time from the mould. I never heard a single good report on that bullet and I certainly never had any luck with it. It had all of what we thought we're the necessary pieces and parts and SHOULD have worked good. Maybe I pushed it to fast, but not everyone did surely, and yet there were crickets when it came to praise. I don't know why PB can be such a bear. I can use PB in a revolver and everything is sunshine and lollipops, but stick a PB in a rifle and something changes- not all the time, but enough so that I view it as a different game.

Quick case in point,,ive been playing with the mp 147 rcbs copy,bullet.it shoots wicked small groups out of 9mm and 38 super,so i know the bullet is accurate.along comes a ar15,in 350 legend,and that bullet wont shoot better then 6 inches,at 50 yards!!but the 358156gc,,will stay around an inch,with 3 different powders.
Pb in rifles is,,,,,,,,,weird.

 

[Bret4207]

Different throats/chambers, different fit?

 

[fiver]

mostly but gas cutting has something to say about it, as well as how the lube reacts to the initial pop.

 

[Snakeoil]

It appears that I wrote the following replies never hit send.

PB can be a real bear to work with. Years back, (more than a decade!), over on The Site Which Shall Not Be Named as mess of us got together and design the "perfect" PB design. It was called the "30 Plinker" and it's whole purpose was to to drop good, PB bullets suitable for the various 30 cal class and to be used with liquid lubes and they dropped 6 at a time from the mould. I never heard a single good report on that bullet and I certainly never had any luck with it.

Were there different alloys used in that PB experiment, Brett?

Not sure if anyone is trying PB bullets in the .30-30 at Wilton. A 12 twist might be gentler to a soft PB bullet.

I don't know why PB can be such a bear. I can use PB in a revolver and everything is sunshine and lollipops, but stick a PB in a rifle and something changes- not all the time, but enough so that I view it as a different game.

I think the variable is twist. If you look at pistol calibers from .32 up to .45, the twist spans 16 to 20. Move to .30 cal rifles and 12 is about the slowest twist you will find, with most in the 10 range and some modern hotshots like .30 Blackout at 8. Trying to get a soft PB bullet to engrave a twist that fast probably results in a lot of shearing.

 

[L Ross]

Oh yeah, .30-30. I've shot lots of the RCBS 30-150-CM in the .30-30 over 14.0 grains of 4227 with much satisfaction.

 

[Bret4207]

I've read and believe that the twist in the 32 Special is more cast friendly than the faster twist of the 30-30. But I don't own a 32, so I trial and error away in the hope of finding something workable. That being said, if people can make the 6.5 Swede shoot cast, there's hope for most anything out there!

 

[Snakeoil]

I've read and believe that the twist in the 32 Special is more cast friendly than the faster twist of the 30-30. But I don't own a 32, so I trial and error away in the hope of finding something workable. That being said, if people can make the 6.5 Swede shoot cast, there's hope for most anything out there!

Yup. 16 twist, same as the .32-40

 

[popper]

Results with 18" 1:10 BO carbine with 31-142 PB. Not perfect but decent.

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