Pre 64 Winchester 30-06 bullet

[Josh]

Hello everyone, Lamar told me to swing over and get the collective input on a design. I have incorporated the suggestions he gave me and this is version 3 of this design. Now here is the "story" behind this design, i wanted a 250 gr plus projectile that would take the entire magazine OAL and just barely put the gas check at the base of the neck. I hope to launch this bullet at approximately 1900-2000 fps for a very close to full power load.

The check will be about half way below the neck or .040 thou if that makes more sense. Lamar told me to move the front band as far forward as humanly possible to fill and engage the throat and start of the riflings. This brought down my bore ride from .605" to .545" and moved COG to the 48% mark.

 

[Ian]

I see at least five things I would do differently. You started telling "the story behind the design" but didn't say what cartridge or platform it is intended. A pound cast of the chamber and throat would be helpful as well.

If this is for a .300 BO I would suggest making a dummy bullet and running it through from the magazine. Your long, blunt, parallel nose will cause you some problems if that is the case.

 

[Brad]

I am gonna go out on a limb and say it is for a pre 64 Mod 70 in 30-06.

If not then this is the worst thread title in the short history of this board.

 

[Ian]

Oh jeez. OK, so I just used all my dumb-ass points for the day. I'm going to blame your header picture alignment, it's been overlapping and covering up the topic titles for me all day.

Still need a pound cast to see what condition the throat is in.

 

[Brad]

Sure, blame the software.....



That is one long bullet.

 

[Josh]

Oh jeez. OK, so I just used all my dumb-ass points for the day. I'm going to blame your header picture alignment, it's been overlapping and covering up the topic titles for me all day.

Still need a pound cast to see what condition the throat is in.

The throat is in like new condition, for most of it's long life it was in a box and fired less than 200 rounds. I did not do a pound cast, but measured the throat length with a jacketed bullet. From a max length case you can seat a bullet out .125" and is .310" in diameter

 

[Ben]

Are we certain that the current twist in the rifle will stabilize a bullet this long ?

Ben

 

[Josh]

Are we certain that the current twist in the rifle will stabilize a bullet this long ?

Ben

Yes sir, i have shot the Lee 309-230-5r which is about .025" longer from the same rifle and down to 1100 FPS it flew straight and did not show any oblong holes. The Greenhill formula shows a stability factor between 1.45 @ 1100 FPS and 2.4 @ 1900 FPS

 

[Ian]

Ben, I've shot quite a few of the NOE 247-grain PB bullets through my 12-twist Savage .30-30s (Model 219 break-action, both of them) and they are stable and very accurate out to at least 100 yards, as far as I shot them. Not sure how fast 7 grains of Unique pushes them, but not very is my guess, definitely subsonic. I was a bit surprised that they stabilized, but they do just fine.

 

[45 2.1]

Unlike some rifles known to guys here, a 10 twist performs very well with all known bullet weights at some very anemic velocities...............................

 

[Ben]

I asked my question because I have experienced stability issues with my 240 gr. Accurate .30 cal cast bullets fired from my 30-06 rifles. I have 6 or 7 other molds in .30 cal. that throw bullets in the 200 - 220 gr. weight range that have NEVER shown stability issues.

I shot this 1st photo below with my cell phone ( poor pic quality ) using incandescent light ( always gives a reddish tint to my photos ) . They look copper coated, but they are not.

I have an Accurate Brass mold that cast a 180 gr. plain base .30 cal. cast bullet , but also cast a 240 gr. plain base .30 cal.



I shot my 240 gr. 30 cal. cast bullets sized .311 through one of my Tikka, 30 - 06 rifles. ( groups fired at 50 yards )

Look close at the test target below. You'll be able to see some " tipping " of the bullet with the 8.5 grs. of Unique load ( oval holes in the target ) . Once I went to 9.0 grs. of Unique that was reduced ( although not completely gone ) and also notice that the bullet's stability and accuracy ( group size ) improved.





I ran out of time with my testing of the bullet. I wish now I'd tried 9.5 grs. of Unique to see if the stability issue could be resolved 100 % by increasing the velocity a bit more ?

That will give me a good reason to get back to the range and test this bullet some more.

My wife always says ......." Boys and their Toys".

 

[Brad]

Great example of what unstable bullets make for holes in a target. I have only had that once and it was a jacketed load. Well, actually not jacketed as it was a 150 Barnes X bullet in my 270. Holes looked just like that. I went to a lighter, shorter, bullet and no more troubles. Going faster wasn't an option in that rifle.

 

[Josh]

Now I do have to ask Ben, isn't that load going right around 950 to 1000 FPS? To me that is still really good even if it shows some instability. What happens to those same loads at 100 yds?

 

[358156hp]

Perhaps the best thing to do is order your mould and try it. I too, think it may be too long, but the rifle is the only participant that gets a vote at all.

 

[Charles Graff]

Some yeas back, I took a flyer on designing a heavy 30 caliber hunting bullets for the 30-06 and 30-40 rounds. I wanted a good meplat and to shove the bullets 1,900 to 2,000 fps. In other words, I had the same goals as the OP. Belonw is what I came up with. Cast from No. 2 alloy, it weights 225 grains and keeps the gas check in the case necks of both rounds. The bottom driving bands measure .312, the top band for the throat is .3105 and the nose is .302. The meplat is .250. Pushed by a charge of 50 grains WC872 it will run 1,900 to 1,980 fps in my Winchester 95 and Japchester 95 both in 30-40. I use the same charge in the 30-06 case but added enough Precision Shotshell Buffer to give a compressed load. I have shot this in my 1954 Winchester 70, and a couple of 03A3 Springfields. The velocity is also 1,900 fps plus some depending on the firearm and the day.

The accuracy for all rifles runs 2.5 MOA out to a full 200 yards. I have not gone beyond that. I have cast bullet loads that are much more accurate, but for a hunting load, this is plenty of accuracy for my needs. So, I would call the project a qualified success. I would have like better accuracy and maybe that could be had with more load development, but I met my goal and called it quits. I have sized these bullets .310 and .311 and could not see much difference in the results on the targets.

The mold was cut by Dan at Mountain Molds.

 

[Josh]

Awesome, thanks for the write up. I may try this with H-1000 and Retumbo. Like you my Winchester is a 1954, And like you i found my throat is .310

I wonder how closely made our rifles are.

 

[Brad]

You should call it "The flying dowel"

 

[Josh]

As long as it isn't the "Tumbling Dowel" I have it ordered with Tom. Now for the long wait.

 

[Brad]

Long wait? Not with Tom, at least I never have.

Be sure to let us see what they look like.

 

[Josh]

Long wait? Not with Tom, at least I never have.

Be sure to let us see what they look like.

As soon as i can get the lead hot, pics will follow...